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Author Topic: To Fornovo and Back Again!  (Read 2646 times)

Offline Condottiere

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Re: To Fornovo and Back Again!
« Reply #45 on: November 02, 2019, 03:04:58 AM »
Thanks again Condottiere!

I love the article and Gonzaga's interest in Ottoman dress and especially the 'turban'.

When it comes to the Fornovo game I will certainly be adding a vignette depicting him wearing such a turban. Perhaps as he's being armed for battle. It would make a great scene :)

Be sure to yell "Turco, Turco!" when charging or probably not... lol

More on Mantuan and Ottoman relations: More than a Messenger: Embodied Expertise in Mantuan Envoys to the Ottomans

Regarding medals:

Ludovico Gonzaga and Pisanello: A Visual Campaign, Political Legitimacy, and Crusader Ideology

Pisanello, Chivalric Dwarfs, and the Princely Condottiere Medal

Would've been nice to have at least a drawing of the purchased turbans in the Gonzaga armory - what's the size, shape and color? According to The Coverings of an Empire: An Examination of Ottoman Headgear from 1500 to 1829, should it be blue, marking Francesco II as a Christian? Since it was made in Venice, it might've been any color.

Despite its perceived exoticness, I'm surprised there was some confusion over the name, as the pictures in Venetian Narrative Painting in the Age of Carpaccio show, it was ubiquitous in biblical scenes and there's the painting of the Venetian ambassadors to the Mamluks. Though never regarded as properly Roman, turbans have been worn by Byzantine civilians and military since the 6th/7th  Century - By the Emperor’s Hand: Military Dress and Court Regalia in the Later Romano-Byzantine Empire.

Here's a reconstruction of Vlad the Impaler as an Ottoman vassal (Military Illustrated #30, Nov. 1990):





Offline Atheling

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Re: To Fornovo and Back Again!
« Reply #46 on: November 02, 2019, 08:34:21 AM »
Condottiere,

What publication are the colour plates taken from?

Angus MacBride, yeah?

Offline Condottiere

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  • Posts: 601
Re: To Fornovo and Back Again!
« Reply #47 on: November 02, 2019, 06:32:44 PM »
Condottiere,

What publication are the colour plates taken from?

Angus MacBride, yeah?
It's a two part article titled 'Dracula' and his Contemporaries: 15th Century Balkan War Leaders by David Nicolle(parts 1&2) and David Windrow(only credited in part 1) and paintings by Angus McBride - Military Illustrated #30, Nov. 1990 and #31, Dec. 1990. This is from back when Military Illustrated had articles worth reading - the back cover of #31 has a tobacco ad with a warning!   

Offline Atheling

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Re: To Fornovo and Back Again!
« Reply #48 on: November 02, 2019, 07:49:26 PM »
It's a two part article titled 'Dracula' and his Contemporaries: 15th Century Balkan War Leaders by David Nicolle(parts 1&2) and David Windrow(only credited in part 1) and paintings by Angus McBride - Military Illustrated #30, Nov. 1990 and #31, Dec. 1990. This is from back when Military Illustrated had articles worth reading - the back cover of #31 has a tobacco ad with a warning!

Thanks mate.... I stopped smoking years ago so I'm probably safe  ;D :D

Offline Condottiere

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Re: To Fornovo and Back Again!
« Reply #49 on: November 09, 2019, 04:34:22 AM »
AFAIK, hard copies are difficult to find of this Italian and French book, but a digital version is available at 37 Euros or individual articles at 6 Euros:  La battaglia nel Rinascimento meridionale : moduli narrativi tra parole e immagini

If I'm not mistaken, a translated version is here: https://www.viella.it/libro/9788883344916 - The abstract for each article is in English.

Google translation of the back cover:
Quote
Between the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries, Southern Italy became the theater of the clash between the dynasties that disputed the possession of the Kingdom, and with it of the central Mediterranean: first the Angevin and Aragonese ruling houses, then the nascent national monarchies of France and Spain, but even local authorities, hostile to all forms of centralization, gave rise to a long series of battles: more than thirty scholars from various nations and different scientific fields (historians, classical and humanist philologists, Italianists, historians of the Italian language, of art, architecture and miniature) have investigated the vast literary and artistic documentation produced around these war events. Described in miniatures, in frescoes, in tapestries, in bronze or in marble, in the polished Latin of the humanists or in the blunted vulgarity of the ambassadors, in the masterpieces of Machiavelli or Guicciardini, the battles provide an interesting key to a deeper knowledge of the southern Renaissance. The focus of the investigation is not so much the battles in themselves, although reconstructed here, but their different narratives, where the actual progress of the war event often ends up being concealed through a progressive shift from factus to fictus.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2019, 04:36:56 AM by Condottiere »

Offline Atheling

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Re: To Fornovo and Back Again!
« Reply #50 on: November 09, 2019, 09:51:14 AM »
AFAIK, hard copies are difficult to find of this Italian and French book, but a digital version is available at 37 Euros or individual articles at 6 Euros:  La battaglia nel Rinascimento meridionale : moduli narrativi tra parole e immagini

If I'm not mistaken, a translated version is here: https://www.viella.it/libro/9788883344916 - The abstract for each article is in English.

Google translation of the back cover:

Looks great. And very informative, It's really just what I need but it is quite expensive even for just the download. I'm going to have to bookmark it and pay at a later date  :'(

Offline Admiral Alder

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Re: To Fornovo and Back Again!
« Reply #51 on: November 14, 2019, 01:11:47 AM »
Atheling and Condottiere - thank you for sharing these excellent resources. I hope to follow your Fornovo project with interest.

I've got a fair few Perry plastics, but I'm not having much joy in finding decent flags for the Venetians as there's only one provided in the European mercenaries box, and I'd want one for a hand gun unit, one for the swordsmen, stradiots, light horse, MAA, crossbows, and pikemen, possibly even a bill armed unit. Any suggestions for flags and heraldry beyond the lion of St Mark?

Offline Malatesta

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Re: To Fornovo and Back Again!
« Reply #52 on: November 14, 2019, 02:33:16 AM »
... I'm not having much joy in finding decent flags for the Venetians as there's only one provided in the European mercenaries box, and I'd want one for a hand gun unit, one for the swordsmen, stradiots, light horse, MAA, crossbows, and pikemen, possibly even a bill armed unit. Any suggestions for flags and heraldry beyond the lion of St Mark?

Start here (it's in Italian, but google can automatically translate it for you): http://stemmieimprese.it/2018/11/24/le-bandiere-veneziane-conquistate-dagli-svizzeri-nella-battaglia-di-agnadello-e-conservate-nel-museo-di-appenzell/#more-1527

Italian Wars blog (Pete's Flags): http://thegreatitalianwars.blogspot.com/search?q=venetian

Hope it helps.

John