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Author Topic: Piquet Field of Battle 3 Any News?  (Read 767 times)

Offline vtsaogames

  • mad scientist
  • Posts: 594
    • Corlears Hook Fencibles
Re: Piquet Field of Battle 3 Any News?
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2019, 10:24:37 PM »
As a predominantly historical player, who also reads a lot of military history, this is exactly why I like FOB - battle is usually an unpredictable mess which rarely goes to plan. Often the better army wins by dint of other unforeseen circumstances, eg. Mars La Tour - the Prussians assumed they were attacking a rearguard and had planned accordingly. They were in fact attacking the head of the whole French army, but French deployment was poor, command and control was lacking and the Prussians had some good luck, which the French lacked. The smaller force held the larger force to a draw, and then the larger force withdrew. Without a lot of constraints on the French player such a result would be difficult for the Prussian to achieve using more conventional rule systems,

Our rules of choice for this period, Bloody Big Battles, give a close game of Mars la Tour. Each unit rolls to activate, similar to Fire & Fury. A unit may move full speed, half speed, not move at all or if in a bad way take a hike to the rear. The French are saddled with a passive movement modifier. The Germans are not. In addition, they have numerous staff officers to give positive movement modifiers. This gets them move moving fairly sprightly against the sluggish French. Also, the game designer crafts good scenarios and this is one of the 8 Franco-Prussian scenarios in the rules. It's fairly simple yet does the job. Please excuse this interruption. Back to FOB.
No good deed goes unpunished

My blog: http://corlearshookfencibles.blogspot.com/

Offline Leman

  • librarian
  • Posts: 159
Re: Piquet Field of Battle 3 Any News?
« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2019, 09:27:26 AM »
BBB are also my go to big battle set. But I also like to play smaller affairs or parts of big battles in more depth. This is where FOB sits for me.
If itís too hard, I canít do it

Offline olicana

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    • Olicanalad's Games
Re: Piquet Field of Battle 3 Any News?
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2019, 11:00:59 AM »
I've only played BBB once, up in Perth. It was a FPW game, played on the table with counters (a rules test), rather than figures if memory serves, but it was an enjoyable game and I can see it being popular for resolving big battles in good time. "Blucher" is similarly useful for resolving big Napoleonic games in an enjoyable way.

However, as Leman says, at a level of command below 'big battles' (which I usually take as under 40,000 men / 1000 figs a side using 'battalion level tactics'), PK style games are our go to because of the 'edge of your seat' tension they engender.

One thing FoB and PK do not do particularly well, is big multi-player games - though FoB are better than classic PK in this regard. PK begins to get clunky at about twenty units a side, 12 to 18 being optimum.

On a different tack, (IMHO) classic Piquet (FoB is different) is best not played with D20 initiative dice. This can throw up games where the probability of all things being equal in the long run doesn't play out and one side gets all of the initiative spoiling the enjoyment of the game for the player who gets none. We find "Domino Theory" a much better way. This gives unequal initiative to both sides but, both sides usually get to act. It works like this:

Each player has a bag containing a full set of dominoes (0 - 6 spots per half on domino; 0-0 to 6-6). Each player draws a domino unseen from the bag and they are compared.

The player with the highest number of pips on his domino wins the initiative (E.g. 5-2 beats 3-1; BTW where equal pips: 5-2 beats 4-3; 4 - 2 beats 3-3; etc.) - he gets the total number of pips on his domino as initiative points (E.g. 5-2 = 7 initiative points). The loser gets the high side of his dom (E.g. dom 3-1 equals 3 initiative for the loser).

Further, if a double domino is drawn (E.g. 4-4; 6-6) the winner adds the whole of both domino pip counts together (E.g. 5-6 Vs 4-4 the winner gets 19 initiative). If the loser drew the double he gets both halves (E.g. 5-3 Vs 3-3 the winner gets 14, the loser gets 6).

Further, the winner can go first or second.

Further, if identical dominoes are drawn the turn ends.

Sounds complicated but actually very easy and logical in practice. We have pretty much switched over to domino theory completely as it gives a much more enjoyable game.

Note: Where only one bag of dominoes is available, one player draws a domino for each side - the bag changes over to the other player if the drawer wins. Play exactly the same as above except the turn ends on double blank and odd domino pips (E.g. 0-0 and 3-2, 3-2 being 5 - an odd number).
« Last Edit: September 03, 2019, 11:57:56 AM by olicana »

Offline Leapsnbounds

  • scientist
  • Posts: 411
Re: Piquet Field of Battle 3 Any News?
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2019, 11:19:41 PM »
I also am a long time Piquet player and it is a hard sell to get my group to play.  They are such control freaks and sometimes don't get the type of game I want to play.  Something that reads like a story rather than a math match.
 The only time I really get to play and let my hair down (what's left of it) is at Historicon.  Usually I have to referee.
 It's good to see a piquet/field of battle post on the forum.

Offline Leman

  • librarian
  • Posts: 159
Re: Piquet Field of Battle 3 Any News?
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2019, 04:22:36 PM »
Sounds exactly like the kind of game I prefer and the type of opponent I donít. Unfortunately I am in the UK.

Offline olicana

  • mad scientist
  • Posts: 667
    • Olicanalad's Games
Re: Piquet Field of Battle 3 Any News?
« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2019, 05:16:14 PM »
Piquet rules do have a following here in Yorkshire. Not sure about about on the dark side of the Pennines though.

Did here a good Liverpool joke today though, it was about the famous mountain there. What's it called? Oh yeh, Killamanforhisgiro.

Offline OB

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Re: Piquet Field of Battle 3 Any News?
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2019, 05:24:50 PM »
I think the more you know about a period the more likely you are to enjoy what Piquet/Field of Battle delivers.  Things do go wrong and the unexpected can happen.

Ian of Lancashire Games is a Piquet fan and he sells all the rules too, better again he includes them when he has a Sale.

Offline Leman

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  • Posts: 159
Re: Piquet Field of Battle 3 Any News?
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2019, 09:22:20 AM »
I remember one Piquet FPW game in which the Prussian player had a very good run of cards and was thus able to get a cavalry unit to overrun a French gun line from the flank. In a way this was very similar to von Bredowís feat at Mars La Tour, but almost impossible to achieve with a standard set of rules.

Offline OB

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Re: Piquet Field of Battle 3 Any News?
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2019, 10:23:19 AM »
That is a great example.

Offline olicana

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    • Olicanalad's Games
Re: Piquet Field of Battle 3 Any News?
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2019, 02:22:18 PM »
I love hearing examples of 'how battles read' that happen in Piquet.

Another example using classic Piquet:

Whilst playing Swedes in a GNW game, a historical battle set up by Mark D - aka Ilkley Old School (when he was New School) - but, I can't remember which, and having rolled a superior C-in-C (thus with two Brilliant Leader cards), I decided to move my cavalry on the left wing, which would be idle because of restrictive terrain, to bolster the cavalry on the right; furthermore, so as not to get caught up amongst the infantry or waste cards and initiative moving behind them before traversing the field, I decided to risk the move in front of the army.

With the four Cavalry Move in the Open cards, two  Brilliant Leader cards, and a reasonable run of the initial initiative (using opposed D20s), I succeeded with aplomb, taking only one stand loss from the Russian artillery which, frustrated by a lack of initiative and a single turned Artillery Reload card, had to sit and watch after the first shot.

Then, the eight units of horse, now concentrated on the right, led the attack supported by the infantry attacking en echelon. Just about everything went for the Swedes that day. Ga-Pa!

This could, I suspect, only happen using classic Piquet.



A shot of one of Mark's GNW games. I painted the leading cavalry; I remember because that dead horse, the one with it's head stuck in the grass and covered in blood, was bent and posed that way because the horse was a miscast - it's entire 'nose' was missing! All figures Mark D's collection.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 02:43:20 PM by olicana »

Offline DintheDin

  • scatterbrained genius
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Re: Piquet Field of Battle 3 Any News?
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2019, 03:53:23 PM »
A great picture with so beautiful minis!  :-*
Now and then we had a hope that if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates. Ė Mark Twain, Life on the Mississippi

Offline Antonio J Carrasco

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Re: Piquet Field of Battle 3 Any News?
« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2019, 07:56:20 PM »
Well, I am almost convinced!  lol

Some questions, though.

I have the original Piquet rules, would you recommend me to buy Field of Battle v.2? Or should I wait until FoB v.3 is published and play classic Piquet in the meanwhile? I mean, are the differences significant enough to justify the expense on a ruleset that will become obsolete soon?

My main interest are Napoleonics (in 15mm) and 18th Century. Neither period has the models based on the sizes recommended by Piquet. Does it matter the size of the bases? Or is it irrelevant as long as both forces are based following the same guidelines?

Finally, how much terrain is recommended? I know that this looks like an odd question, but I have learnt for experience that some rulesets doesn't work too well if there are too many terrain elements on the table.

Thanks in advance!

Offline olicana

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    • Olicanalad's Games
Re: Piquet Field of Battle 3 Any News?
« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2019, 09:17:34 AM »
Personally, I'd wait. There are big differences between classic Piquet and FoB, and 3 will probably be better than 2 - if the difference between 1 & 2 is anything to go by. If you have more than a passing interest in FoB, I have a copy of 1 you can have to look through (for an idea of the differences between classic and FoB) for the price of the postage (I'm in the U.K.). PM me.

Base size is unimportant. If units have a similar frontage, and are able to form the formations, that's good enough - I don't know anyone who actually follows the standard basing requirements. I also know of very few people who remove stands / bases of figures in games. Classic Piquet units generally have 'four stands' (unit integrity points), and these can be tracked, as casualties, with markers. Here we use stones on coins. In the pic below, the Scots have taken '3 casualties' (stones on coin) and are disordered (tuft on coin), white pom poms show unit fired and 'unloaded' - the latter really meaning unable to resolve the effect of steady fire again for a certain amount of time (fog of war).



Terrain in Piquet generally has quite severe impact on the game. In games here, using the descriptions in the book, we tend to downgrade everything a level, so a gentle hill is type I, stop at contact then move normally.

Woods are usually type II unless full of undergrowth. Steep hills are type II.

For something to be type III it has to be pretty dense, such as a bog, dense woodland with undergrowth, or heavily wooded slopes.

Type IV terrain (which require units to test to move in it) is seldom used but, it's a useful classification for rivers that might, and I say that might, be fordable in places, or cliffs which brave souls might attempt to climb. Type IV tends to be a scenario thing.

Buildings, using the town section principle, work as well as any rules out there.

Unless you like field boundaries (walls, hedges and the like) to play significant a part in your battles (we don't) treat such terrain as aesthetic only.

With all that in mind, put your usual amount of terrain on the table and see how it goes.

The pics below show a Peninsular game with a good amount of terrain. The woods are type III; the rocky, scrubby hills are type II, and the wall surrounding the small trees (on the hill) show the extent to which that particular hill also provides type II cover (the wall is not a wall, or 'new terrain type' it merely indicates the cover boundary); the stream is type I (stop at contact, then move normally next move); the buildings (town sections) speak for themselves; we give a 4" move bonus to troops moving in column of route but, that's a house rule to get bang for terrain buck! The haystacks are useful for defining deployment zones but are otherwise simply aesthetic.







This was my Liegnitz 1760 set up. Similar definitions for most things; the bogs were type IV, the stream was type II. The fields and isolated trees are aesthetic only.




This was my Zorndorf 1758 game, with the 'effecting' terrain noted. Typically, this is an open SYW battlefield.





You only need terrain when you don't have enough tin.



Hope that helps,

James
« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 09:39:53 AM by olicana »

Offline Leman

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Re: Piquet Field of Battle 3 Any News?
« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2019, 10:06:41 AM »
I agree with what James says. Most of my armies are 10mm based on 25mm squares (artillery on oblongs). It is very convenient to build armies of four bases to a unit. Here are a couple of pictures of an FPW game using FOB2:



Sample FOB2 card


Much firing activity - troops now waiting for an infantry fire card to continue the firefight


I would definitely wait for v.3 as it does sound like there will be both improvements to the rules and additional theatre specific QRSs.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 10:09:21 AM by Leman »

Offline Antonio J Carrasco

  • mad scientist
  • Posts: 651
Re: Piquet Field of Battle 3 Any News?
« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2019, 10:32:04 AM »
Wow! Great info, thanks!

My Napoleonics are 6 bases for the French, and 4 for the Spanish (the armies I have painted and ready to use; each base represents, roughly, 1 company). I can use the Spanish as they are and the French I can "brigade" the elite companies as independent battalions. Artillery is also 4 bases a unit? I have it organized in batteries (3 bases, representing 6 guns) which means I am a bit short of guns, in that case.

Thanks again for the information.