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December 14, 2019, 09:52:37 AM

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Author Topic: Koyote's SAGA Moors  (Read 2843 times)

Offline tancrede

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Re: Koyote's SAGA Moors
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2019, 08:03:03 AM »
Yes, the "Saga master" as started another great project.
As always, I'll keep an eye on this project, sir.
My blog, for personnal and commission work, and sometimes other things too => http://studiocaillou.blogspot.fr/

Offline Koyote

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Re: Koyote's SAGA Moors
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2019, 03:49:20 PM »
Wow! They are quite large clay shapers.... have you tired using the black tipped ones? They are a smaller size and the softer tip so I personally find them easier to control the putty with.

The photo of the clay shapers is a magnified photo of the tools taken from an online retailer's website, so the shapers aren't really that large.  I do, however, use the 'Size 0' shapers and they work just fine.  I also have a set of the black tipped shapers with the softer tips, but I prefer shapers pictured in the photo.  Perhaps I'll give the black tipped shapers another try.


Offline Atheling

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Re: Koyote's SAGA Moors
« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2019, 05:52:48 PM »
The photo of the clay shapers is a magnified photo of the tools taken from an online retailer's website, so the shapers aren't really that large.  I do, however, use the 'Size 0' shapers and they work just fine.  I also have a set of the black tipped shapers with the softer tips, but I prefer shapers pictured in the photo.  Perhaps I'll give the black tipped shapers another try.

Yeah, it was just a suggestion. Whatever works best for you really :)

Offline Koyote

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Re: Koyote's SAGA Moors
« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2019, 06:18:51 PM »
My Footsore truncated teardrop shields have arrived.  Overall, the casts I quite good. 

On the back of each shield is a little nub that I assume is intended to rest against the top of the model's shield hand.  I've tested the fit with the nub in place and I don't like it, so I've clipped off the nubs and used a pin vice to drill a shallow recess into the back of each shield.  The recesses create a ball and socket joint with the shield hand, creating a snugger fit and making it easier to rotate the angle of the shield.

Inspired by illustration in Osprey Publishing's The Moors -The Islamic West 7th-15th Centuries AD, I've decided to replace my cavalry models' current shields with small round shields.   As such, my Footsore order also included an Arab Round Mixed Shield pack for my cavalry.  My favorite shield from this pack is the shield with the four round studs on its surface, but sadly pack included only two of these shields. 

The studded shields are a simple design and have a simple, flat back, so I used Instant Mold and greenstuff to make 6 more.  Below is a photo of the molds and GS shields.  Before snapping this photo I only had time to trim one of the GS shields.  I'll trim the remaining five when I get home from work tonight.



If you're not familiar with Instant Mold, it's a great product for doing simple greenstuff casting.  I used in the past to make skull icons for Space Marine should pads and to cast giant demon toads (pictured below) for a Frostgrave project.  To use the product you place it hot water until it becomes pliable.  Once the product softens, you remove it from the water and press your master into the product and then let it cool.  After a few minutes you remove your master from the mold and you are ready to start casting.  The product can be used over and over again by reheating, so if your mold doesn't turn out quite right or if you have to destroy the mold to remove the casted model (as pictured below), then you can start over by putting the mold into hot water.

Removing the cast from the mold before the greenstuff hardens will deform your cast, so let your greenstuff cure overnight before removing it from the mold.

I've found that I get the best results if I create small vents in my molds using the point of an xacto blade.  This allows trapped air to escape when you are pressing greenstuff into the mold.

 

A few years ago, when I cast my demon toads I used Apoxie Sculpt instead of GS.  This was a mistake.  The cast didn't turn out as sharp as I would like and included some defects, so I ended up using GS to patch the casting defects.


« Last Edit: October 04, 2019, 07:36:07 PM by Koyote »

Offline TheDaR

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Re: Koyote's SAGA Moors
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2019, 07:35:51 AM »
The photo of the clay shapers is a magnified photo of the tools taken from an online retailer's website, so the shapers aren't really that large.  I do, however, use the 'Size 0' shapers and they work just fine.  I also have a set of the black tipped shapers with the softer tips, but I prefer shapers pictured in the photo.  Perhaps I'll give the black tipped shapers another try.

I love my clay shapers, and only rarely use classic metal dental tools anymore.  I have and use multiple sets of shapers:  black (extra firm) in both 0 and 2, plus grey and white (firm and soft) in 2.   I tend to start out with the size 2 to do gross shaping, switch to the 0s to refine details, and then go back with the white size 2 to smooth out the surfaces.  Finally, as the putty starts to really cure, back to the black, mostly size 0, to do the last bits of polishing and blending.  I probably use my greys least, except for the #2 flat chisel, which I tend to use to shape rounded surfaces like muscles, especially early on in the process.  Black #0s tend to get the most use overall, especially round cup, flat chisel, and taper.  #2 Cup Round is the most used white.  I use the angel chisel in all 4 sets rarely, mostly for edging of things like armor or other mechanical bits, and I have yet to figure out where the cup chisel would be useful (maybe if I worked in actual clay instead of epoxy putties?).

Offline Atheling

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Re: Koyote's SAGA Moors
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2019, 09:54:31 AM »
I have and use multiple sets of shapers:  black (extra firm) in both 0 and 2, plus grey and white (firm and soft) in 2.   I tend to start out with the size 2 to do gross shaping, switch to the 0s to refine details, and then go back with the white size 2 to smooth out the surfaces.  Finally, as the putty starts to really cure, back to the black, mostly size 0, to do the last bits of polishing and blending.  I probably use my greys least, except for the #2 flat chisel, which I tend to use to shape rounded surfaces like muscles, especially early on in the process.  Black #0s tend to get the most use overall, especially round cup, flat chisel, and taper.  #2 Cup Round is the most used white.  I use the angel chisel in all 4 sets rarely, mostly for edging of things like armor or other mechanical bits, and I have yet to figure out where the cup chisel would be useful (maybe if I worked in actual clay instead of epoxy putties?).

Is there one place where you can order the above sizes and plasticity of the above shapers? I've found loads on the net but they are available from different dealers who often don't mention the plasticity (hardness/softness) or sometimes even the size?

Offline Koyote

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Re: Koyote's SAGA Moors
« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2019, 06:14:40 AM »
My GS cast shields turned out pretty good.

Also, I've finally selected a model to use as my Moors' Warlord, Fireforge Games' Saladin.  Of course, me being me, I can't leave well enough alone, so I did a head swap and added a shield.  The former was done to make the model look a bit less glitzy and the latter was added to cover up the model's upper left arm, which is positioned in an unnatural looking way. 

The horse is a huge, barrel chested beast that dwarfs the Gripping Beast plastic Arab cavalry horses that I'm using for hearthguards' steeds.  I decreased its height slightly by cutting off the bottom half of each of its hooves.

As I did for the Warlord of my Britons warband, I'll likely create a 3" DIA magnetized display base that I can insert my Moorish Warlord into.





Offline Atheling

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Re: Koyote's SAGA Moors
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2019, 07:20:04 AM »
Great headswap!!  8) 8) 8)

Do you know how big is the Salah ad-Din Yusuf ibn Ayyub model compared to that of say Perry Miniatures  (or say metal Gripping Beast)? I was thinking of buying  one myself but was put off by the apparent inconsistent size of the Fireforge models.

I assume height was the reason why you filed down the hooves?
« Last Edit: October 09, 2019, 07:21:46 AM by Atheling »

Offline Koyote

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Re: Koyote's SAGA Moors
« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2019, 02:32:37 PM »
Great headswap!!  8) 8) 8)

Do you know how big is the Salah ad-Din Yusuf ibn Ayyub model compared to that of say Perry Miniatures  (or say metal Gripping Beast)? I was thinking of buying  one myself but was put off by the apparent inconsistent size of the Fireforge models.

I assume height was the reason why you filed down the hooves?
Iíve ordered Perry Miniaturesí Bedouin cavalry. When they arrive, Iíll post some size comparison photos.

Offline Atheling

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Re: Koyote's SAGA Moors
« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2019, 03:06:36 PM »
Iíve ordered Perry Miniaturesí Bedouin cavalry. When they arrive, Iíll post some size comparison photos.

Please do. I'd be very interested in how they compare.


Offline TheDaR

  • schoolboy
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Re: Koyote's SAGA Moors
« Reply #25 on: October 10, 2019, 09:08:30 AM »
Is there one place where you can order the above sizes and plasticity of the above shapers? I've found loads on the net but they are available from different dealers who often don't mention the plasticity (hardness/softness) or sometimes even the size?

I originally bought my in a local Art store (Daniel's Art Supply), but they're available from larger online art and craft stores.  The brand I bought were Royal Sovereign. States-side https://www.dickblick.com/products/colour-shapers-tools/ and https://www.jerrysartarama.com/colour-shaper-sets carry them.   The actual "Clay Shapers" are black and extra firm.  The firm grey and soft white ones are sometimes sold as "Colour Shapers" and may be advertised for use with Oils and Watercolors.

Offline Atheling

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Re: Koyote's SAGA Moors
« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2019, 09:45:35 AM »
Thanks!! That's brilliant  8)

Offline Koyote

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Re: Koyote's SAGA Moors
« Reply #27 on: October 11, 2019, 04:50:50 PM »
I did some work on my Moorish Warlord's display base.  The Warlord's base rests in a recess and is secured in place by magnets.  The plan is to attach the standard bearer and musician to the base via magnets.  This will make it easier to transport the models in a carrying case.

The standard bearer is from Brother Vinni's Arabia model line.  The musician is made from Gripping Beast plastic components.  The body and head are from the Arab Spearmen kit and the right arm and horn are from the Arab Heavy Cavalry kit. 




Offline Ogrob

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Re: Koyote's SAGA Moors
« Reply #28 on: October 11, 2019, 05:35:14 PM »
Looks great! The veiled head is perfect on the warlord.

Offline Atheling

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Re: Koyote's SAGA Moors
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2019, 08:25:06 AM »
Great stuff. Keep it going.

I always enjoy watching the progression of conversion work and sculpting.

BTW, where do you get your putty from?

Green stuff can go off so I was wondering where the best place is to get the freshest GS?