*
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
March 28, 2024, 04:34:10 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Donate

We Appreciate Your Support

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 1686516
  • Total Topics: 118107
  • Online Today: 857
  • Online Ever: 2235
  • (October 29, 2023, 12:32:45 AM)
Users Online

Recent

Author Topic: Chain of Command Indochine Updated with Pics  (Read 3432 times)

Offline Sparrow

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1302
Re: Chain of Command Indochine Updated with Pics
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2019, 06:49:04 AM »
From my (limited) experience of CofC  I am currently thinking it’s the way I’ll go for French Indochina. I find the rules simple, elegant and conveying the right “feel” for mid C20th warfare in 28mm games. The only obstacle I’m hitting is a lack of suitable Force lists (which are quite important, I feel, with these rules).

Ultimately I’ll sit down and write my own (and the unofficial Vietnam supplement referred to in various threads here is really useful! Thanks all!) but I currently feel hampered by a) my lack of real in depth knowledge of the rules and b) I don’t think I know the period well enough yet. Has anyone dealt with this yet for their own games and, if so, what did they come up with? (i.e. has anyone any ideas they are willing to share that I can start from?).
Put your trust in God and keep your powder dry!

Offline c0cky30

  • Bookworm
  • Posts: 95
Re: Chain of Command Indochine Updated with Pics
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2019, 12:12:12 PM »
Hi Sparrow.

Just so happens I have been looking at knocking up some 1954 French and Viet Minh lists.

I am a little stuck on the French Para platoon structure if anyone has some info.  I will try andpost some lists on my blog http://carportgaming.blogspot.com in the next few weeks.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2019, 12:16:57 PM by c0cky30 »

Offline robh

  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • Posts: 3379
  • Spanish offworld colonies
Re: Chain of Command Indochine Updated with Pics
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2019, 01:10:04 PM »
Why do you think Chain of Command works for Indochina? I am looking for a skirmish rule set for Vietnam (1960s) and several people suggested COC but I have strong doubts over its suitability, yours is one of the few game I have seen set outside WW2. I game Indochina in 20mm with Crossfire but fancy something individual based 1:1 for the later war.

Looking at the rules and various reviews/AARs the patrol phase seems to force creation of a "meeting engagement". How do you deal with the Vietminh wanting to remain stationary and hidden?

With the terrain density for Vietnam how do you get any manoeuvre after the patrol phase? It seems to me that deployment is always going to be 12" apart as the French patrol counters will never have to move back far to get into cover. So the game is a straight up dice roll off?

For a setting such as Vietnam how do you find COC not having any spotting rules works?
« Last Edit: November 17, 2019, 01:17:07 PM by robh »

Offline commissarmoody

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 8669
    • Moodys Adventures
Re: Chain of Command Indochine Updated with Pics
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2019, 01:50:55 PM »
Hi Sparrow.

Just so happens I have been looking at knocking up some 1954 French and Viet Minh lists.

I am a little stuck on the French Para platoon structure if anyone has some info.  I will try andpost some lists on my blog http://carportgaming.blogspot.com in the next few weeks.
Here is a good link for everything French Indochina war. Gots TO&Es for Viet-Minh and french forces.

http://indochine54.free.fr/

This is a link to the guys who blog original commissioned the FIC war range for Empress.
This page in particular shows a quick company and platoon snap shot.
http://dienbienphuredstarminiatures.blogspot.com/2013/06/books-french-paras-in-indochina-1945.html?m=0

If you have the time. Check out the rest of thr blog. Lots of good snapshots, and information to be found.
"Peace" is that brief, glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading.

- Anonymous

Offline Sparrow

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1302
Re: Chain of Command Indochine Updated with Pics
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2019, 03:43:00 PM »
Hi Sparrow.

Just so happens I have been looking at knocking up some 1954 French and Viet Minh lists.

I am a little stuck on the French Para platoon structure if anyone has some info.  I will try andpost some lists on my blog http://carportgaming.blogspot.com in the next few weeks.

Cheer! I’ve been well impressed with all the content on your web site. Will watch with interest!

Offline commissarmoody

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 8669
    • Moodys Adventures
Re: Chain of Command Indochine Updated with Pics
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2019, 04:10:57 PM »

Offline c0cky30

  • Bookworm
  • Posts: 95
Re: Chain of Command Indochine Updated with Pics
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2019, 08:16:25 PM »
Hi robh,

"Why do you think Chain of Command works for Indochina?"

Given COC is a platoon based tactical game the mechanics translate quite well to most periods with some minor adjustments.

Looking at the rules and various reviews/AARs the patrol phase seems to force creation of a "meeting engagement". How do you deal with the Vietminh wanting to remain stationary and hidden?

Squads can deploy from any jump off point.  There are also ambush rules as well as force specific rules that can account for this.  There are also a range of different scenarios which have differing objectives.

With the terrain density for Vietnam how do you get any manoeuvre after the patrol phase? It seems to me that deployment is always going to be 12" apart as the French patrol counters will never have to move back far to get into cover. So the game is a straight up dice roll off?

Jump off points can be deployed further.  For example the Viet Minh can push hard in the patrol phase then deploy deeper.  The VC Local Knowledge support option also allows for a jump off point to be moved later. In terrain a squad can easily become isolated. Ambush rules cab also catch out a force.

How do you find COC not having any spotting rules works?
Because you deploy when you choose this creates it's own spotting situation so an attacker is best served to recon an area.  A variable roll is also used for site in dense terrain.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2019, 08:18:23 PM by c0cky30 »

Offline Goliad

  • Librarian
  • Posts: 178
Re: Chain of Command Indochine Updated with Pics
« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2019, 09:18:47 AM »
For my para TOE I used the references found on this page and the 1954 TOE in particular:

http://1project2far.blogspot.com/p/indochina-war-ressources.html

There was a link (which I can't find now) to a US military analysis of the Indochina war which reflected what's in the 1954 TOE. Apparently by late in the war the loss of experienced NCOs was leading to the fielding of 2 section platoons. "Fire and movement" was elevated to the platoon level rather than the section. The para TOE I used had 1 x fire section of 12 (2 x LMG teams, rifles, garands, carbines); 1 x maneuver section of 15 (10 x SMGs (it's in the TOE!), a couple rifles and carbines); 1 x rifle grenade team of 3 and a command group of LT, adjutant, and 3 soldiers (one looks like he was equipped as a marksman with a scoped rifle). All up that's 35 in the platoon. I really don't know how often a platoon would have been fielded like this but it sure makes it a fun challenge to coordinate your sections!

I decided to use the "Team Leader" rule in the Vietnam variant for each of the section teams so there is a Junior leader plus 2 x Team Leaders. I wondered too about using a superior Junior Leader and ditching the Team Leads. My platoon is mixed too - so French and locally recruited soldiers. In some battalions the local recruits and French were segregated and in others they seemed to have been integrated at the platoon and section level.

I imagine in the field there was a bit of variation in platoon structures - take your pick of 3 x 15; 3 x 10 or the 2 section platoon!

I will probably stick with CoC. Local gamers seem to be mostly bolt action (not keen) or CoC. CoC is quite good for solo play as well. I have since tried FNG, which was fun. Indochina certainly is an interesting shoulder period - you can either go with WW2 rules or modern rules.

Offline robh

  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • Posts: 3379
  • Spanish offworld colonies
Re: Chain of Command Indochine Updated with Pics
« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2019, 09:26:01 AM »
@cocky30, thanks for your thoughts on the rules

Offline Legion1963

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1086
Re: Chain of Command Indochine Updated with Pics
« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2019, 08:13:16 PM »
Indeed. Tantastic setup and miniatures. Thanks for sharing. :-)

Offline Grumpy Gnome

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 5333
    • The Grumpy Gnome
Re: Chain of Command Indochine Updated with Pics
« Reply #25 on: July 12, 2022, 08:32:58 AM »
@c0cky30 and @Goliad …. Sorry for a bit of thread necromancy 🧟‍♂️ but I wanted to thank you for the work you put in on DMZ and the Indochina addition. It has been helpful to have found this thread and wonder if any of the original posters have new information or opinions to add.

Beautiful table by the way Goliad.
Home of the Grumpy Gnome

https://thegrumpygnome.home.blog/

Offline Paul @ Empress Miniatures

  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • Posts: 3091
Re: Chain of Command Indochine Updated with Pics
« Reply #26 on: July 12, 2022, 09:28:48 AM »
Missed this so well done for resurrecting.

Great looking game as well  :-*

Offline CapnJim

  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • Posts: 3658
  • Gainfully unemployed and lovng it!
Re: Chain of Command Indochine Updated with Pics
« Reply #27 on: July 12, 2022, 04:38:23 PM »
Missed this so well done for resurrecting.

Great looking game as well  :-*

Yeah, I missed it too. Chalk it up to my brilliant powers of observation....   ::)

Anyway, well done.  Great minis and terrain!
"Remember - Incoming Fire Has the Right-of-Way"

Offline mikedemana

  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • Posts: 2846
  • Investigating curiosities around the globe...
    • Worldwidemike
Re: Chain of Command Indochine Updated with Pics
« Reply #28 on: July 13, 2022, 11:29:39 PM »
Looks excellent! Your trees look great, too. Great compromise with purchased and DIY!

Mike Demana