Naval Matters

[RobertBruce]

Does anyone here play ironclad era naval games 1855-1885? This is before pre-dreadnoughts as we think of that group of ships. I am working up scenarios for clashes between Britain and France during their naval race of this era, also Italy and Austria. These are hypothetical, except for Lissa.

A basic question: these ships almost all had sails as well as steam power as they mark the amazing era of transition to the battleship. Would they have gone into action under sail as well as steam? It seems like them would just be under steam to me, but I my NAVWAR 1/3000 ships from the Warships in Transition all come with full sails to mount. Should I add masts with furled sails or full?

It is still not clear to me as a newcomer where I should post this so I have put it here in the hopes that our moderator Chris will assist if necessary. Thanks! RB

[Westfalia Chris]

It's a bit tricky, I'll admit. General Discussion should be ok for the time being.

Re: your question, I'd assume that while ships' engines weren't fully reliable and if they weren't the only means of propulsion, it might be fair to assume they'd set battle sails for combat. This is what I would do on models for anything up to the 1870s, best compromise IMHO for any tall ship.

My impression, albeit mostly from secondary sources, would be that the sails were, in the earlier decades, primarily used to cruise, with the engines kept in reserve for combat and emergencies.

I did a little project on Fuchoo a couple of years a go and modelled the sails as furled, but that is the tail end of the era. If your models come with sails, I suspect it's to allow the gamer to depict the model as desired. Whatever floats your boat.

[RobertBruce]

Thank you Chris - makes sense. As I think about it, it may also have been counter-productive to try to maneuver in combat with your engines while under sail, and sail was a known quantity, giving confidence.

I thought about posting this under Age of the Big Battalions, since it was during this time frame, but there is no precedent there for naval discussion that I can see. I am primarily a Big Battalion collector and gamer so that suits me. But I do dabble in several naval periods and am especially drawn to the evolution of the battleship. RB

[Westfalia Chris]

Thank you Chris - makes sense. As I think about it, it may also have been counter-productive to try to maneuver in combat with your engines while under sail, and sail was a known quantity, giving confidence.

I thought about posting this under Age of the Big Battalions, since it was during this time frame, but there is no precedent there for naval discussion that I can see. I am primarily a Big Battalion collector and gamer so that suits me. But I do dabble in several naval periods and am especially drawn to the evolution of the battleship. RB

Well, there are a couple of threads going on about Warlord Games' Black Seas right now, and the time scope (essentially, anything ca. 1700 to 1914 that isn't colonial, wild west, oriental or horror/fantasy) explicitly includes the Crimea, ACW and FPW, so I'll move it there if you want to, but I'll admit it is not so clear-cut as with Napoleonics.

Re: the original question, I came a contemporary painting of Lissa last night that showed all ships in action with sails furled, so that might be indicative for the latter part of the period (artistic convention/liberties aside).

[SteveBurt]

There is a set by David Manley called 'Fire when Ready Mr Gridley' which I think covers this era.
I'm pretty sure the sails were not used in battle - too much fire risk. They were there to save fuel on long sea voyages; a particular concern for the British who were obsessed with getting bases all over the place so their new-fangled ships could refuel.

[RobertBruce]

Thanks Steve. I am aware of David Manley and have his Broadside and Ram rules. This is kind of his era and he has written 4 sets of rules for it that I know of. I believe that each one is a little different in mechanics and focus. But he seems to be the one to go to for this topic.

I agree about the sails after thinking about it, although perhaps in the early days when steam engines and propulsion were none too reliable, some sailing captains may have felt a bit more comfortable fighting with sails set.  For the 1850's, I am thinking about some of the ships, many converted from sailing vessels, keeping their sails set and adding a fire risk to combat results. But this period is marked by so many improvements in guns and shells that sails should be limited to cruising, I think, by the time of HMS Warrior. I do not see sails set in most illustrations for the battle of Lissa. RB

[WuZhuiQiu]

Another disadvantage of using sails in combat is that the ship's movement is then constrained by the wind speed and direction...

[RobertBruce]

And they have to be manned and the sailors more exposed to fire rather than serving the guns. But as its hypothetical for the most part, its fun to put myself in an 1850's captain's head and think about all I would know about sailing vs steam by that time in my career. I would keep on at least some sail in case the engine failed.

I am starting with a fictional conflict in the Med arising from the Franco-Austrian war in 1859. Britain was concerned about trade disruption with Austria and told France to stay out of the Adriatic. Instead France sent 6 steam battleships. In the real world Britain backed down, but in my scenario war is declared, and France and England go at it. And Tegetthoff, with his small Austrian fleet gets to rehearse for Lissa.