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Author Topic: A Wars of the Roses project in 6mm  (Read 2945 times)

Offline Osmoses

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A Wars of the Roses project in 6mm
« on: December 12, 2019, 07:20:34 PM »
A few years ago I began a Wars of the Roses project in 28mm. While I’d intended it to be an open-ended project, progress was slow and eventually stalled completely. Recently, I decided to revisit the period in a more manageable scale.

I am intending to use the Perfect Captain’s “A Coat of Steel” rules, and these build armies by generating contingents with variable components. This seems like a good way to model the armies of the time, where, particularly when it came to arrayed troops, you might not always be able to get the men you want. The problem in practical terms with this approach is that you need a pool of figures larger than your army to draw from, in order to cover the variables. This is one of the reasons that the 28mm project stalled, but is much easier to deal with in 6mm.

The other issue with this method of building armies is that you need a lot of small bases to build your units. Also, the game cares about which troops are in the front rank, so there’s limited scope for using multi-bases. In 28mm, the bases were 40mm squares, but in 6mm I went for 25mm square bases to cut down on the total figure count. When it comes to 6mm, I much prefer to do bigger ‘diorama’ style bases, but that’s not feasible here which is a shame.



Having already started this period before, I had already gone through the whole business of deciding on bill to bow ratios. This is something that can generate unreasonably heated discussion on wargames forums, broadly split between those advocating a 1:1 ratio and those favouring a higher ratio of archers. I feel that the argument hasn’t been conclusively made by either side. Regardless, it’s something you have to decide on before starting, unless you’re using a set of rules that mandates a particular ratio.

There are some different approaches I took to accommodate 6mm. Livery badges aren’t going to be visible at this scale, but wherever possible I would put the badges in the centre of chest and back for major nobles, even if they would normally be on the left chest only. I think you need more obviously visible cues in this scale.

In 28mm, I’d avoided the distinctive large ‘swallow tail’ standards as I felt these were likely to have only been used in static positions, but these standards are so iconic of the period, I decided to include them in 6mm, for Earls and higher at least. Again, with the figures themselves not carrying much detail, I think it’s important to use every other means to make the army look like it ‘belongs’ in the genre, even if this sometimes means resorting to cliche. The standards are also more readable in 6mm than a lot of the heraldic banners, many of which in this period are too complex for 6mm. Inevitably, banners and standards are enlarged at this scale to make them more visible.



The figures are based on 25mm square 2mm mdf. Some Mininatur 2mm static grass was applied with an applicator, and then bits of clump foliage added

I’m sticking to the period up to 1461, and initially just 1461. So I’ve started with retinues for Richard Neville, Earl of Warwick and Henry Percy, Earl of Northumberland along with their supporters. Progress has been quick so far, but there’s still a long way to go.


Offline Atheling

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Re: A Wars of the Roses project in 6mm
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2019, 07:47:57 PM »
They are fab  8)

I saw a great (literally great, it was huge!) 6 mil game of Towton at a show a few years back, though I cannot remember which show it was at now  o_o

Offline fred

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Re: A Wars of the Roses project in 6mm
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2019, 07:51:44 PM »
That’s a great start. Looking forward to seeing more.

A coat of steel has always looked interesting  to me, but it comes with so many files I got a bit lost with it when trying to work out how to play it.

Offline Osmoses

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Re: A Wars of the Roses project in 6mm
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2019, 07:56:37 PM »
The rules for ACOS themselves are pretty straightforward, but there's an absolute ton of printing and cutting to be done. And you need to print out and cut the cards at least to try the game. So it can be a bit daunting.

Offline fred

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Re: A Wars of the Roses project in 6mm
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2019, 09:46:25 PM »
Might have another look then - it did feel it needed a bit of a quick start guide to get you going - but then again it is a free set, which seems to have a ton of detail and research to it - so I suppose a bit of thinking isn't too high a price to pay!

Offline Osmoses

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Re: A Wars of the Roses project in 6mm
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2019, 10:07:37 PM »
It integrates with their A Crown of Paper campaign game too. Which is a load more printing and cutting :) There is a Vassal module for A Crown of Paper too.

Offline fred

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Re: A Wars of the Roses project in 6mm
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2019, 10:10:11 PM »
Yes, I might well have looked at both together the first time, which would have added to the shear amount of files and things needed!!

Offline Inkpaduta

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Re: A Wars of the Roses project in 6mm
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2019, 03:39:24 AM »
Now is simply great. That looks so impressive and gives a good representation of the numbers involved.
I wish I could paint 6mm that well.

Offline Erik

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Re: A Wars of the Roses project in 6mm
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2019, 08:46:51 AM »
Very impressive army. I have always wanted to do a 6 mm medeival army my self. Please keep this tread alive as you start playing. Your army is very imspirational.


ACOS is very heavy going game that probably gives a very accurate picture of mediaeval battles. This takes it a long way, but the combats are very long slugfests that take forever. It gives a bit boring games, where you really have to want it to have fun.
The campaign system ACOP is by far the best I have ever seem. We have actually never played through a campaign. We just use them as a battle generator.

Best of luck with you fine armies.

Cheers
Erik

Offline Osmoses

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Re: A Wars of the Roses project in 6mm
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2019, 05:36:49 PM »
Yeah, we played a few games in 28mm where the combats were a bit of a slog. I think the real positive of ACOS is how the personalities of the magnates are handled and the way the events cards can shape the narrative of the battle.

Offline DivisMal

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Re: A Wars of the Roses project in 6mm
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2019, 07:04:44 AM »
That look is excellent! 6mm gives you the real feel for huge densely packed units!

Offline LazyStudent

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Re: A Wars of the Roses project in 6mm
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2019, 08:53:16 AM »
Awesome looking armies! 6mm is great for the epic look. And your painting is very nice. I like your idea of putting the livery badges :D
"History is a set of lies agreed upon.”
― Napoleon Bonaparte

Offline Captain Blood

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Re: A Wars of the Roses project in 6mm
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2019, 03:30:47 PM »
They look great  :o :-*

Offline Osmoses

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Re: A Wars of the Roses project in 6mm
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2020, 04:19:00 PM »
So, some months on and much progress. Following the release of the 'new Bloody Barons' WOTR rules by Peter Pig, I've decided to go over to that set. Given my earlier stated enthusiasm for ACOS, it's an indication how much I like the new rules. They are not a second edition of Bloody barons, but a completely new set. This has meant a bit of reorganisation, but on the plus side, there are fewer bases now as BB uses 4 or 8 base units as standard, so I've glued my single bases together. This has made it MUCH easier to keep track of them when setting up a game.

I've recently played a few of the historical scenarios, but I'm ultimately going to look at crossing the ACOS scenario set up into BB, which should just be a case of converting recruitment counters directly into units. That will probably need a 6 x 4 grid rather than a 4 x 4.

There's a bit of a description of the new BB rules here:
https://adcgaming.wordpress.com/2020/04/05/bloody-barons/

Blore Heath:



Hedgeley Moor:


Offline Charlie_

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Re: A Wars of the Roses project in 6mm
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2020, 05:39:57 PM »
That's a very 'smart' looking setup. Nice!

Interesting reading your review of the BB rules. I've always thought WOTR battles are so different to other medievial/ancient battles, unique in their own special way, that they do require their own ruleset. In many ways they are very boring (almost all infantry, mostly identical armies, generally identical battle plans), but a special ruleset just for them can have some fun abandoning 'traditional' big battle ruleset ideas and coming up with  novel new concepts. Seems BB does this quite nicely.