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Author Topic: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...  (Read 22600 times)

Offline Shahbahraz

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Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
« Reply #105 on: January 07, 2020, 04:42:38 PM »
I would be interested to understand the economics of it, how many do you need to sell to break even? There are a lot of hidden costs like samples, transport, show costs, packaging  etc. That would all have to be factored in.
Wargaming since the dark ages...

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Offline Eric the Shed

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Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
« Reply #106 on: January 07, 2020, 05:30:38 PM »
I read that they even failed to sell many of the beautiful boxes of Plastic Dervishes..

Can't believe this as the Sudan is a very popular period. Can you provide a link?

 

Offline AKULA

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Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
« Reply #107 on: January 07, 2020, 06:37:33 PM »
I would be interested to understand the economics of it, how many do you need to sell to break even? There are a lot of hidden costs like samples, transport, show costs, packaging  etc. That would all have to be factored in.

Without derailing the thread, it depends primarily upon the cost of the sculptor, and the production material - metal, resin or plastic.

Many of the “hidden” marketing costs are pretty minimal, if you plan ahead, or if you’ve got an existing range(s) that a new release can piggyback.

Without giving too many numbers, if I planned a new release with a well-known sculptor, using a top caster, for metal figures and a set of master & production moulds, then my breakeven might still be anywhere between 100-200 castings....but again it would depend upon the exact cost of the sculptor, how many figures I released at the same time, how many figures per mould, what the sale price per figure was etc etc

The biggest cost with a new range is the sculptor, but given this is their company & their time, the break even run for a new release may well be surprisingly small.

 ;)

Offline Hupp n at em

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Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
« Reply #108 on: January 07, 2020, 07:36:36 PM »
Can't believe this as the Sudan is a very popular period. Can you provide a link?

I also have a hard time believing this, I've seen them in a lot of game shops over here and I see them being used all the time in scratchbuilds for fantasy/medieval/other "periods" which have nothing to do with the Sudan (as well as other Colonial kitbashes, obviously).

Offline Captain Blood

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Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
« Reply #109 on: January 07, 2020, 07:54:54 PM »
I heard the same thing - I think, though it could be my memory playing tricks on me - from Michael Perry directly. I was suggesting a plastic set of Pathans to him, and I’m pretty sure his response was that the Mahdists hadn’t been as good a seller as expected, so they would need to think carefully about future colonial sets, given the significant cash investment required to bring a plastic kit to market.

To be fair, this was probably 3 or 4 years ago, since when they’ve released two British colonial infantry sets, plus the Zulu set. So maybe sales of the plastic Ansar picked up enough to justify the later sets.

Offline Arthur

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Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
« Reply #110 on: January 07, 2020, 08:32:44 PM »
Maybe I m, as always , against the tide..but from my feeling I m almost sure they ll sell a number close to nothing for those first sets of the range..and that s will be a good new for me as, as a consequence, they ll stop the project and come back again to fill the gaps of their other interesting ranges

 ::) ::)

You DO realise not everything revolves around your personal tastes, desires and opinions, do you ?

There was much enthusiasm for one or two of the previous, more esoteric Perry outings. Yet how many games do you see around set in the Carlist Wars or the 'British Intervention Force'? Not many.

I certainly agree about the BIF, though I suspect Alan Perry would have been the first to admit he essentially sculpted the range for his personal enjoyment and did not really expect it to sell particularly well, or even at all.

I think you're selling the first Carlist War short though : there have been a fair few FCW games on the British show circuit over the last decade, some of them quite large, and there are still people doing the period to this day, including LAFer's Roger C. and Nuno/King's Carbine (obviously, as he is currently planning a big Mendigorria bash for Salute 2020), in addition to a few others. Granted, the period is nowhere near to becoming 'mainstream' (whatever that may mean) and it never will be but I think it still boasts a core of dedicated enthusiasts who are making it more than just a wargaming oddity.     
« Last Edit: January 07, 2020, 08:34:16 PM by Arthur »

Offline italwars

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Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
« Reply #111 on: January 07, 2020, 10:04:19 PM »
::) ::)

You DO realise not everything revolves around your personal tastes, desires and opinions, do you ?


of Course i do...but i cannot succeeded up today in holding back my typical gemini lunatic and provocative characteristics  ;) ;) :) :) :D
« Last Edit: January 07, 2020, 10:28:48 PM by italwars »

Offline italwars

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Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
« Reply #112 on: January 07, 2020, 10:24:32 PM »
Without derailing the thread, it depends primarily upon the cost of the sculptor, and the production material - metal, resin or plastic.

Many of the “hidden” marketing costs are pretty minimal, if you plan ahead, or if you’ve got an existing range(s) that a new release can piggyback.

Without giving too many numbers, if I planned a new release with a well-known sculptor, using a top caster, for metal figures and a set of master & production moulds, then my breakeven might still be anywhere between 100-200 castings....but again it would depend upon the exact cost of the sculptor, how many figures I released at the same time, how many figures per mould, what the sale price per figure was etc etc

The biggest cost with a new range is the sculptor, but given this is their company & their time, the break even run for a new release may well be surprisingly small.

 ;)

Akula interestings feedback and i do not think you're derailing the post...from what i read, many many years ago, probably in Miniature Wargame magazine and almost sure from an interview to the boss of Wargame  Foundry...the breakeven was 150 castings each of the same subject...but we are talking about just breakeven ...and then????...maybe, and probably,  the interest and demand would deflate..even if we talk about British Colonials or Zulus...let's think about more "out of the beaten path" subjects...from my personal experience my Italwars 28mm Italian Colonial line...about 1999-2002 went well certainly more than 150 castings per subject...with more than half customers from abroad (which was my main target and pleasure to deal with)..but my following 20mm Italian Mountain  Front WW1 specialist Alpini and Kaiserjager Standeschutzen types...carefully researched and beautifully made did'nt went so good....Cannot understand why but the Alpini were moderatly succesful in Italy while nobody care a bit about my far more detailed and also iconic Austrian Tyrolese Mountain troops....
On the other hand...here i managed to find and still can enjoy the services of a pair of good sculptors at a moderate price while the cost, quality, reliability of more than one mould makers was similar to a true extorsion...that's one of the main reasons why i gave up or at least put temporary aside my venture...
I understand , as somebody said, that Perry Brothers had already earn some well deserved money , are talented and quick and, not last, UK has some very good and honest casters but to plan, research, make, let's produce, check and chek again plus advertise a new range ist still a very big energy expendure even if you do just cause you like the period and do not care about ineducated and rough tastes of the mass....as i did with my 20mm WW1 Italian Front minis...
« Last Edit: January 07, 2020, 10:31:34 PM by italwars »

Offline Macunaima

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Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
« Reply #113 on: January 07, 2020, 11:59:34 PM »
Yeah, well, the Perrys gonna do what the Perrys gonna do. They have a lot more access to sculpting and molding equipment and talent, as well as capital, than Italwars did, I reckon.

Hell, there used to be a miniatures pirate here in Rio named Jorge Bientes. Jorge had his own mold making equipment and centerfuge out in Duque de Caxias in a housing project. He’d copy off GW stuff like mad and made a fair good living doing it, even though he never got beyond the “selling to a handful of gaming nutter friends” stage.

What I am trying to say is that if you are a talented sculptor with a life time’s experience and can produce a green faster than most people can paint a figure, and you have access to molding and casting equipment, already paid for, all you really need to pay for is the labor of someone to spin your casts and the raw materials. That brings costs waaaaaay down.

The Perrys have all of that.

(Note: this isn’t a defense of piracy. In fact, for years I and the people at Devir tried to convince Jorge to go legit. It would have been easy to do! But Jorge was.... well, relaxed, let’s say. He just wanted to spin enough figures to sustain his living expenses and etc. Brazil really lost a great chance to get minis started when Jorge decided he just didn’t have the ambition to make a professional go of it.)
« Last Edit: January 08, 2020, 12:02:49 AM by Macunaima »

Offline Volleyfire!

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Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
« Reply #114 on: January 08, 2020, 08:11:05 AM »
As a comparison I once asked Peter Berry at Baccus if he could do some Piedmontese light cavalry with lances for Risorgimento and he replied yes.... if I was willing to buy the first, I think it was 30, packs in order to make it worthwhile i.e. break-even costs wise, or find buyers for the other 28 packs since I only wanted about 2. So for fairly obscure or less popular periods there is always going to be that question at the back of the commercial manufacturer's mind, "Is this worth doing and will it pay for itself?".

Offline Malamute

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Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
« Reply #115 on: January 08, 2020, 03:00:12 PM »
I heard the same thing - I think, though it could be my memory playing tricks on me - from Michael Perry directly. I was suggesting a plastic set of Pathans to him, and I’m pretty sure his response was that the Mahdists hadn’t been as good a seller as expected, so they would need to think carefully about future colonial sets, given the significant cash investment required to bring a plastic kit to market.

To be fair, this was probably 3 or 4 years ago, since when they’ve released two British colonial infantry sets, plus the Zulu set. So maybe sales of the plastic Ansar picked up enough to justify the later sets.

Perry Plastic Afghans/Pathans just became a reality. Photos up on Facebook.  Looks like the Mahdists weren't such bad sellers after all!  :)
"These creatures do not die like the bee after the first sting, but go on age after age, feeding on the blood of the living"  - Abraham Van Helsing


Offline Antonio J Carrasco

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Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
« Reply #117 on: January 08, 2020, 03:01:25 PM »
Perry Plastic Afghans/Pathans just became a reality. Photos up on Facebook.  Looks like the Mahdists weren't such bad sellers after all!  :)

You beat me for seconds!  lol

Offline Captain Blood

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Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
« Reply #118 on: January 08, 2020, 03:56:28 PM »
I heard the same thing - I think, though it could be my memory playing tricks on me - from Michael Perry directly. I was suggesting a plastic set of Pathans to him, and I’m pretty sure his response was that the Mahdists hadn’t been as good a seller as expected, so they would need to think carefully about future colonial sets, given the significant cash investment required to bring a plastic kit to market.

To be fair, this was probably 3 or 4 years ago, since when they’ve released two British colonial infantry sets, plus the Zulu set. So maybe sales of the plastic Ansar picked up enough to justify the later sets.

Perry Plastic Afghans/Pathans just became a reality. Photos up on Facebook.  Looks like the Mahdists weren't such bad sellers after all!  :)

Yep, how's that for serendipitous timing lol
Clearly the passage of a few years has changed the great man's mind. And no doubt the cheeky appearance of plastic insurgent, Wargames Atlantic, has caused them to bring this announcement forward.
That or my comment yesterday  ;)
:D

https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=121958.msg1530387#new

Offline Arthur

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Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
« Reply #119 on: January 08, 2020, 05:27:41 PM »