Operation Jubilee - Dieppe Raid and Churchills Now with Dingo!

[gamer Mac]

Very interesting project
Looking at those photos you have to wonder if anybody actually looked at the beaches before the landings ?
those ramps and beach exits look like death traps

[Cubs]

Looking at those photos you have to wonder if anybody actually looked at the beaches before the landings ?
those ramps and beach exits look like death traps

Well, the two headlands flanking the beach were meant to be taken before the landings - in the end neither one was. There were engineers on foot to blow the seawalls and other obstacles in the town, but they were mostly gunned down on the beach. The bobbin mats carried by Churchills did allow some tanks to exit the beach up the steep shingle and into the town, but not enough, since most tanks were lost on the beach, including the 3 flamethrower tanks (one sank). The final wave of landings was, quite rightly, cancelled. No point throwing more lives away.

Another terrible case of ifs and buts - if the headlands had been taken, the crossfire on the beach would not have decimated the landing forces. But another much bigger IF was that without the Dieppe disaster, would so many lessons have been learned about how not to conduct a beach landing ahead of D-Day?

[Rich H]

Hold on... Those pics are Puys beach, a few Km to the north of Dieppe.  This was an unsupported infantry landing.  The idea was the heavy smoke would cover the attack as the village of Puys was lightly defended by half a company of reservists.  But the landing was delayed and the smoke disapaited before the landing.  The only exits from the beach were the ramp and the steps both of which were blocked with so much wire it was impossible to breach.

[Rich H]

Not quite right on the main landings either.  The cliffs either side were largely ignored by the landing forces, they weren't a huge risk as they were a long way off or not noted by the intel.  The main batteries a few Km north and south were targeted by separate commando and infantry landings.  The commando raids silenced the batteries during the landings although only one was actually destroyed (by a 2" mortar hit on an ammo dump!)

Also the bobbins didn't have any effect on getting over the sea wall as it was only a foot high in places, around 16 tanks made it onto the prom but most of the engineers didn't make it off the beach.  Those few that did didn't have the right kit to breach the AT walls.  The tanks eventually returned to the beach to protect the infantry awaiting rescue (mostly in vain)

Only 2 tanks were knocked out one by a lucky hit from a PaK36 and one by a Stuka but only one tanker was killed (trying to fix the tracks).

Id recommend Dieppe through the lens for a great detailed account of the main landings.

[Cubs]

Not quite right on the main landings either.  The cliffs either side were largely ignored by the landing forces, they weren't a huge risk as they were a long way off or not noted by the intel.  The main batteries a few Km north and south were targeted by separate commando and infantry landings.  The commando raids silenced the batteries during the landings although only one was actually destroyed (by a 2" mortar hit on an ammo dump!)

Fair enough, I thought the flanking pill boxes and batteries were on headlands either side of the beach. From what I've read, the batteries east and west of the landing sites were still operational when the main landings began, and were only neutralised by commandos later on. The pillboxes on the flanks of the beaches were still very much alive and flaying the beaches with lead.

Also the bobbins didn't have any effect on getting over the sea wall as it was only a foot high in places, around 16 tanks made it onto the prom but most of the engineers didn't make it off the beach. 

The bobbins allowed the tanks to get up the shingle since it was tricky for the tracks to grip it, I didn't mention the sea wall.

Only 2 tanks were knocked out one by a lucky hit from a PaK36 and one by a Stuka but only one tanker was killed (trying to fix the tracks).

Again, from my reading, all three of the 'Oke' flamethrower Churchills were lost - one sank, one lost a track through fire and one exploded when the fuel tank was hit. More were lost when their landing craft were hit before they reached the beach and about half of the tanks landed lost tracks and/or bellied out on the shingle and were immobilised. Taken from the Osprey book on the Churchill tank, Bryan Perret gives casualties for the Calgary Regiment manning the tanks as 13 killed, 4 wounded and all the rest taken prisoner. One man successfully returned to England.

[Rich H]

I meant tanks lost to enemy action.  Several were lost to landing incidents and several were immobilized but not knocked out.  Of the Okes, one lost its fuel tank to a landing craft door, one drowned in deep water and one was immobilized.  The flamethrowers were never fired.
 
You are correct on the casualties, I had confused returned with killed. 

Also you know if you edit a post it says so...  So please don't be dishonest... It said sea wall which I thought was odd hence my comment.

[Rich H]

Going to double check the date of the Okes though.

[Rich H]

Bull, Boar and Beetle were the Okes
Bull was dropped into deep water and abandoned
Boar spent the day driving around the prom until returning to the beach later
Beetle was immobilized and spent the day as a pillbox on the beach.

[Cubs]

Also you know if you edit a post it says so...  So please don't be dishonest... It said sea wall which I thought was odd hence my comment.

Dude, I edited the bit where I said 'the third wave was cancelled' into 'the final wave was cancelled', because I got it wrong, thinking there were 3 waves planned instead of 4. I did not edit anything about the sea wall, I never mentioned the sea wall, I said the shingle.

I am a lot of things, but dishonest ain't one of them. Let's try to avoid becoming internet cliches, acting like two dogs desperately trying to piddle over the same lamp-post.

I guess our sources conflict over what happened to the Okes.

[Cubs]

I meant tanks lost to enemy action.  Several were lost to landing incidents and several were immobilized but not knocked out. 

Yup, fair enough, potato potato (please say second 'potato' strangely). I said 'lost' to mean, not able to continue.

[Rich H]

Sure.  Let's move on

Currently trying to get the scatter to stick

[Cubs]

[Rich H]

Last bit of the Canadian force for the main beach:

[Rich H]

Getting there

[Rich H]

Well that came out nicely:





Needs to dry, then on the windowsill to cure tomorrow, then paint.