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Author Topic: Agincourt/Early-15th Century Triple Colour Clothing?  (Read 429 times)

Offline HappyChappy439

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Agincourt/Early-15th Century Triple Colour Clothing?
« on: February 14, 2020, 06:07:48 AM »
Hi everyone! This is a bit of a question for any medieval fashion experts we might have!

I've been doing some research to try and work out how colours would look for some HYW Burgundian ducal guard but I'm not able to find a clear answer!

I know that parti-coloured clothing was popular at the time, with two colours split evenly down the middle, Duke John the Fearless' personal colours were White, Green and Black! His ducal guard are described as being provided with clothes in all three colours, but I've not found any examples of clothing split into three colours, so I was wondering if anyone had any information about how that would appear in-practice? Would it be three evenly sized sections? Or just a combination of the three displayed at various places (i.e a green houpellande, with white edges and black hood?)

Also, a few of the bodies in the Perry Agincourt French Infantry box have houppelands as their bodies. Does anyone know if  these are also worn parti-colour? I've seen a few examples of civilian ones worn by the nobility (mostly in Tres Riches Heures du Duc de Berry), but I've not found any in a military context

Thanks in advance if anyone has any information!
« Last Edit: February 14, 2020, 06:15:41 AM by HappyChappy439 »

Offline Atheling

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Re: Agincourt/Early-15th Century Triple Colour Clothing?
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2020, 08:30:20 AM »
Have you tried Standards, Badges and Livery Colours of the Wars of the Roses?

It's only 10 and available from the Lance and Longbow Society (just scroll down a wee bit):
https://lanceandlongbow.com/shop.php

Offline JollyBob

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Re: Agincourt/Early-15th Century Triple Colour Clothing?
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2020, 09:20:35 AM »
I tried to do something similar with some WoTR figs once, in red, white and blue, the colours of my local aristos...

I went with a half and half red and white, with a blue accent or badge just to get them all on somewhere. In your case, white and green half colours would look good with any accents in black.

I think however, the basic answer that comes up 9 times out of 10 is nobody knows for sure -  if you think it looks cool, go with it!  :)

Offline Atheling

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Re: Agincourt/Early-15th Century Triple Colour Clothing?
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2020, 09:43:51 AM »
I tried to do something similar with some WoTR figs once, in red, white and blue, the colours of my local aristos...

I went with a half and half red and white, with a blue accent or badge just to get them all on somewhere. In your case, white and green half colours would look good with any accents in black.

I think however, the basic answer that comes up 9 times out of 10 is nobody knows for sure -  if you think it looks cool, go with it!  :)

Sometimes livery colours were worn as a band, like a sash.

Jollybob is right, there is no way to be certain. I still recommend the Freezeywater publication as it has a lot of info packed into the pages!

Offline delbruck

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  • Posts: 273
Re: Agincourt/Early-15th Century Triple Colour Clothing?
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2020, 02:20:57 PM »
A few years later the Scots Guard in French service had red, white and green livery .

Offline Atheling

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Re: Agincourt/Early-15th Century Triple Colour Clothing?
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2020, 02:23:18 PM »
A few years later the Scots Guard in French service had red, white and green livery .

With all due respect that doesn't answer how the livery was worn which is what HappyChappy439 was asking :)

Offline delbruck

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Re: Agincourt/Early-15th Century Triple Colour Clothing?
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2020, 02:33:59 PM »


« Last Edit: February 14, 2020, 02:35:42 PM by delbruck »

Offline Atheling

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Re: Agincourt/Early-15th Century Triple Colour Clothing?
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2020, 03:08:58 PM »
Happychappy.

There's a very good article here on this reenactment site (use Google translate):

La Garde Ecossaise:
https://www.moyenartinternational.com/news/garde-%C3%A9cossaise/

If you have Gerry Embleton's Medieval Military Costume Recreated in Colour Photographs it has an excellent section on Livery including that of the Burgiundian Scots Guard. I can scan the section for you (as long as it's for academic research of course :) )

Offline HappyChappy439

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 380
Re: Agincourt/Early-15th Century Triple Colour Clothing?
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2020, 05:10:58 PM »
Oh wow, thanks for the recommendations everyone!I hadn't thought of using the Charles VII era as a reference! Thanks!

@Atheling, thanks for the Lance & Longbow link as well!

Offline Atheling

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  • Posts: 7109
    • Just Add Water Wargaming Blog
Re: Agincourt/Early-15th Century Triple Colour Clothing?
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2020, 06:18:03 PM »
Oh wow, thanks for the recommendations everyone!I hadn't thought of using the Charles VII era as a reference! Thanks!

@Atheling, thanks for the Lance & Longbow link as well!

No probs. :)