*
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
March 28, 2024, 09:39:34 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Donate

We Appreciate Your Support

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 1686453
  • Total Topics: 118100
  • Online Today: 811
  • Online Ever: 2235
  • (October 29, 2023, 12:32:45 AM)
Users Online

Recent

Author Topic: Wargs, Werewolves. Oathmark weight watchers for wargs  (Read 9202 times)

Offline Ethelred the Almost Ready

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1083
Wargs, Werewolves. Oathmark weight watchers for wargs
« on: February 16, 2020, 06:13:04 AM »
I have bought some Oathmark wolf riders, but I am not sold on the wolf sculpts.
I think Tolkien wargs should not be enormous, otherwise they would be super weapons.  To my mind the GW sized wargs are just too big.  Doing some Googling I think the RAFM wolves might be a good match for my solitary Thunderbolt Mountain wolf.  I think this is about the ideal size for a warg. 
I have tried various manufacturers, so far.  The pictures are below.
Has anyone bought the RAFM wolves?  If so, do you have a picture?
How about Vendel wolves?

In the pictures I have tried to match the base heights of the goblin and elf with the wolves.


Fenrisian Wolves (GW).  These and the Reaper wolf for me are better suited to First Age werewolves.







Thunderbolt Mountain.  For me, about the right size.




Red Box.  Bigger than natural wolves but too small to carry a goblin/orc?






Reaper Bones




The whole lot!




« Last Edit: February 28, 2020, 05:50:02 PM by Ethelred the Almost Ready »

Offline Cubs

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 4911
  • "I simply cannot survive without beauty ..."
Re: Wargs, Dire Wolves or Werewolves
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2020, 06:37:32 PM »
Agreed re: the Oathmark wolves, which is a shame, because by my reckoning it's their first blot on the copy book. I agree with you about the wolves, not just the height/length, but also the general build (not to mention fur texture). In my mind they should have a lean quality to them and be big enough to carry a Goblin/Orc but not be absolutely massive because they seem to be used as wide-ranging scouts as opposed to heavy cavalry! I'd probably plump for the Fenrisian wolves, as they have the right proportions to my eye, both anatomically and compared to the riders, although they are still very big compared to that poor Elf.

One issue is that the Tolkein Goblins/Orcs were considerably smaller than men (except for the Uruk Hai who were the largest Goblins/Orcs and seemed to be 'almost man-sized') but in going for a generic Goblin/Orc race, Oathmark seems to be trying to go for something between the modern fantasy trope of the small Goblin and big Orc, which comes out at an 'almost man-sized' Uruk Hai dimension. Not a problem for the infantry, in fact I think they look great, but because the wolf riders seem to have similar proportions, there's the need for much bigger wolves to cope!
'Sir John ejaculated explosively, sitting up in his chair.' ... 'The Black Gang'.

Paul Cubbin Miniature Painter

Offline Emir of Askaristan

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1790
    • My Blog
Re: Wargs, Dire Wolves or Werewolves
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2020, 10:43:45 PM »
Have to agree with you guys, the wolves put me off. I like the riders, but not their mounts.

Best wolf rider I ever had was a small Asgard goblin with a round shield and spear, riding a slim, long wolf with a large head and shoulders but not a huge bulky features. In shape it was most like the Reaper wolf, but not so broad across the shoulders and it's rider was quite small, reminded me of a jockey with an evil goblin face.

Sadly I can't find one, but I'm sure someone will have a pic.

Offline Ethelred the Almost Ready

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1083
Re: Wargs, Dire Wolves or Werewolves
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2020, 05:34:44 AM »
Have to agree with you guys, the wolves put me off. I like the riders, but not their mounts.

Best wolf rider I ever had was a small Asgard goblin with a round shield and spear, riding a slim, long wolf with a large head and shoulders but not a huge bulky features. In shape it was most like the Reaper wolf, but not so broad across the shoulders and it's rider was quite small, reminded me of a jockey with an evil goblin face.

Sadly I can't find one, but I'm sure someone will have a pic.


http://www.thevikingforge.net/25mm-fantasy-orcs.html


Anyone gone for Russian Alternative?

https://russian-alternative.com/shop/fantasy/the-goblin-wolfriders-unit/
Viking Forge have the Asgard range but the wolves aren't too sleek.  I do loke these figures but have never got around to buying any.

Offline Chimpfoot

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 562
  • Life is a daring adventure or nothing at all
    • chimpfoots tavern
Re: Wargs, Dire Wolves or Werewolves
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2020, 08:34:18 AM »
For my money I will be going the fenrisian route (damn your eyes GW for making me say that) have test fitted an oathmark goblin infantryman on one and imo looks good. Oathmark wolves just don't do it for me look a bit over fed, want my wolves lean and hungry looking
Just my own preferences
Cheese all
chimpfoots-tavern.blogspot.com

Offline Daeothar

  • Supporting Adventurer
  • Galactic Brain
  • *
  • Posts: 5745
  • D1-Games: a DWAN Corporate initiative
    • 1999legacy.com
Re: Wargs, Dire Wolves or Werewolves
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2020, 09:46:10 AM »
For what it's worth, to me the Oathmark wolves are a real turn off too, as I find that they look like overfed mongrels resulting from the unholy union of an old plastic GW wolf and a pug. A real shame, as all other Oathmark products so far have been stellar...

For my Erehwon goblin army, I've used the Fenrisian Wolves in combination with GW's (post Skull Pass) plastic goblins as riders, and the end result is pretty convincing; the wolves actually look like they can support their riders and move at speed.

I think that slightly larger riders would still work with them, but smaller wolves are just not a good option in my eyes (and I've looked at most kinds available at the time...).
Miniatures you say? Well I too, like to live dangerously...
Find a Way, or make one!

Offline area23

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1237
    • area23
Re: Wargs, Dire Wolves or Werewolves
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2020, 03:31:04 PM »
I have the RafM wolves and they are really nice. The right size and proportions for me.
Also in style they fit well with both Oathmark and the old Grenadier miniatures.
They're old Bob Murch sculpts.

I did post a picture on the Middle Earth FB group but not on my blog. I'll see what I can do later on.
If you don't believe in lead, you're already dead.
+++AREA23 BLOG+++

Offline Ethelred the Almost Ready

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1083
Re: Wargs, Dire Wolves or Werewolves
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2020, 06:37:27 PM »
Cheers.
Just saw them on the Middle Earth group.  They look perfect.  I will put an order in.  Hopefully they should arrive just after I get my Oathmark wolfriders.

Offline Grumpy Gnome

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 5333
    • The Grumpy Gnome
Re: Wargs, Dire Wolves or Werewolves
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2020, 08:05:34 PM »
Seems a lot of us are disappointed with the Oathmark wolves.

I will admit that in my project I am going to be mixing a lot of different wolves for wargs, even the hyena like GW LOTR ones despite not liking the look of their heads very much. I like to look of the Fenrisian wolves the best but cost is prohibitive for me and I like diversity. If I remember correctly Gandalf mentions Gundabad wargs are faster than other wargs, this implies to me differences in wargs. You make a fair point about werewolves though as well.

And your minis look great! Thanks for sharing those photos so we can do comparisons between the sculpts.
Home of the Grumpy Gnome

https://thegrumpygnome.home.blog/

Offline Cubs

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 4911
  • "I simply cannot survive without beauty ..."
Re: Wargs, Dire Wolves or Werewolves
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2020, 08:25:40 PM »
Seems a lot of us are disappointed with the Oathmark wolves.

I'm guessing it's a different sculptor and computer-designed from the look.

Offline Ethelred the Almost Ready

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1083
Re: Wargs, Dire Wolves or Werewolves
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2020, 04:56:59 AM »
I put this on the Middle Earth wargames FB page but thought this might stimulate some discussion here.  I am sure Hobgoblin may have some thoughts (and probably tell me the stupidity of my ways!).

"These are my thoughts on wolves, wargs and werewolves. Tolkien didn’t write his books with wargamers or role-players in mind and as such was quite happy to be vague on many topics.

With respect to wolves, werewolves and wargs there is no real certainty and things are made worse by the unusual wolves that attacked the Fellowship in Hollin.


Wolves
Tolkien will use the term wolf for werewolves, wargs and also normal wolves. The white wolves that invaded the Eriador and attacked the Shire during the Fell Winter are probably natural wolves.


Werewolves and Wargs
While he does refer to both as wolves, I don’t believe they are the same. Wargs are not specifically mentioned in the Silmarillion although there is mention of wolves working with orcs and I suspect these would be what were later termed wargs (I believe this was a name given to them by the ancestors of the Rohirrim). Some feel that wargs are the same as werewolves but I would contest that the First Age werewolves seem to be very large and very powerful (wolves inhabited by evil spirits, possibly lesser Umaiar) and only slain by mighty warriors or special hounds. Wargs are slain by mere men and many are killed by Legolas, a rustic Sylvan/Sindar elf, not a mighty Noldor from when elves were in their prime. Therefore they must be different creatures.
Wargs, I feel, cannot be massive. The Battles for the Fords of Isen, perhaps, give us the best description of the tactical use of wargs and wolf riders. They are not used as a shock force in these battles (this was the role of massed Uruks and axemen). They seem to have been used as scouts, a rapidly mobile force that could isolate and cut off enemy forces and were employed particularly against picketed horses. The note regarding wolf riders is as follows:
“They were very swift and skilled in avoiding ordered men in close array, being used mostly to destroy isolated groups or to hunt down fugitives; but at need they would pass with reckless ferocity through any gaps in companies of horsemen, slashing at the bellies of the horses.”
If wargs were massive they would be great as a battering ram against some puny men in a shield wall but are just not employed this way. As already mentioned by Ant Lane, if they are slashing at the bellies of horses, they must be shorter than horses. They might still be relatively strong and bulky as they have to carry orcs swiftly.


The Wolves of Hollin
These pose some problems for a number of reasons and I think people erroneously believe that these were typical of all wargs.
They certainly have the appearance of wargs as Aragorn identifies them as such. Gandalf, of course, has had previous encounters with wargs but does seem somewhat surprised or worried by the fact that the dead wolves have disappeared the morning after the attack. I think this indicates that these were not typical wargs.
Gandalf does use the term gaurhoth, meaning werewolf, during the fight.
“Naur an edraith amen! Naur dan I ngaurhoth!”
Does it mean these are werewolves? I don’t think so. Werewolves didn’t vanish on death in the Silmarillion and these must have appeared much the usual size for wargs (for the reason above). I think this is merely an incantation remembered from the First Age.


So, for gamers, I think we can have wolves, wargs, some sort of strange spirit wolf/warg and, if gaming in the First Age, werewolves.
Wolves are normal sized wolves. Wargs are larger, possibly stocky but not overly tall and more intelligent. Werewolves are large (most) to massive (Carcharoth). The wolves of Hollin are warg sized, probably mortal (they died) but were under some sort of necromancy.
The great thing with Tolkien is that you all may disagree but your arguments will all lack definitive proof (as do mine) and I am free to imagine wolves and wargs as I wish (as you can in your own way). Just remember, however, that I am right and you are wrong". lol


I am quite happy to have my Reaper warg and Fenrisian wolves as werewolves.
The Red Box wolves will be wargs.

The Thunderbolt Mountain wolf will join some RAFM wolves (I am yet to order these) as mounts for the Oathmark wolf riders.
I have just had it pointed out that it would have been cheaper just to buy some Asgard wolf riders, but there you go.

I don't know what I will use the Oathmark wolves for.  Wolf statues maybe?  I really don't need more werewolves (six are more than enough).

As for my normal wolves, they will be............ wolves.



Offline Blackwolf

  • Potato Cup 3 winner
  • Supporting Adventurer
  • Galactic Brain
  • *
  • Posts: 6225
Re: Wargs, Dire Wolves or Werewolves
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2020, 05:27:59 AM »
Just to add about the Asgard wolves (and associated orcs),I have 8 of them; Viking Forge excellent service,the moulds are still good,the sculpts are brilliant,and they’re cheap :)
May the Wolf  Walk With You
http://greywolf1066.blogspot.com.au/

Painting Clubs Joined: APC,MPC, PPC,PAPC,LPC.

Offline Jacksarge

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 350
    • Jacksarge Painting
Re: Wargs, Dire Wolves or Werewolves
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2020, 05:44:21 AM »
Great thread! Really enjoying reading it here & on the FB Middle Earth group, the information has indeed been stimulating & has led to purchasing the Fenrisian wolves. I really like the look of those old Asgard sculpts sold by Viking Forge, encouraging to know that they are good to deal with. Postage from US to Tasmania has me pausing for thought though - usually prefer to buy from Oz or UK.  :)

Offline Ethelred the Almost Ready

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1083
Re: Wargs, Dire Wolves or Werewolves
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2020, 05:54:17 AM »
Hi Jack,
We are almost neighbours - I'm in New Zealand.  Postage from the US is rather problematic.  I always laugh at Brits/Americans who complain their favourite company is on the wrong side of the pond.  Try being in a completely different hemisphere!

Offline Jacksarge

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 350
    • Jacksarge Painting
Re: Wargs, Dire Wolves or Werewolves
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2020, 05:57:03 AM »
Hi Jack,
We are almost neighbours - I'm in New Zealand.  Postage from the US is rather problematic.  I always laugh at Brits/Americans who complain their favourite company is on the wrong side of the pond.  Try being in a completely different hemisphere!

Yea verily!
I have to think carefully before I order anything.