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Author Topic: Heraldry/Livery of the Knights of the Round Table  (Read 1317 times)

Offline Sinewgrab

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Heraldry/Livery of the Knights of the Round Table
« on: March 10, 2020, 03:55:19 AM »
This may belong in Fantasy, but I waffled for a while on it.

I am planning, over the next few months, to finally buckle down and paint the absolutely gorgeous Thunderbolt Miniatures King Arthur and his knights, which I bought the complete set of just before he went out of business, and I am wondering if there is any resource that will give me the heraldry and colors for each knight - because my Google-Fu is coming up short so far.

Anyone have places to point me at?
"There is no known cure for the wargaming virus, only treatments with ever increasing doses of metal."

Offline Tarnegol

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Re: Heraldry/Livery of the Knights of the Round Table
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2020, 05:22:51 AM »
Just started an identical undertaking, all I was able to find was this:

https://www.theheraldrysociety.com/articles/some-arthurian-coats-of-arms/

- although many of Mr Meier's figures are cast with differing heraldry.
"One who puts on his armour should not boast like one who takes it off."

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Offline Atheling

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Re: Heraldry/Livery of the Knights of the Round Table
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2020, 08:13:20 AM »
I would just make it up and do what I fancied.

No need to follow the laws of Heraldry.

Offline has.been

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Re: Heraldry/Livery of the Knights of the Round Table
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2020, 09:55:54 AM »
Nice information, but if you want the fun element (as in Fistful of Lead threads)
a friend I went to school with (Many many years ago) did his own list of King Arthur's knights:-
(A few examples that I do remember)

Sir Pent (Snake), Sir Vis (With a smile), Sir Cull (Round), Sir Vile (If that is OK with you),
Sir Round (Attack from all directions), Sir Vive (Last to die), Sir Ender (First to give up),
Sir Loin (Beefy guy), Sir Fet (Had enough of him),  Sir Charge (Very taxing), Sir Face (Looks OK),
Sir Geon (Cut out for war),  Sir Vey (Looks over the battlefield),  Sir Real (Don't believe what he looks like),
Sir Row-Gett (Just a stand in),  Sir Prize (Didn't expect him),  Sir Plus (A bishop) & Sir Lee (Never polite).

Offline Sinewgrab

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Re: Heraldry/Livery of the Knights of the Round Table
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2020, 04:53:23 AM »
Just started an identical undertaking, all I was able to find was this:

https://www.theheraldrysociety.com/articles/some-arthurian-coats-of-arms/

- although many of Mr Meier's figures are cast with differing heraldry.

I have noticed some of that as well.

I would just make it up and do what I fancied.

No need to follow the laws of Heraldry.

It's a challenge to myself, really.  I'll keep looking.  Last night I found a pic of a Round Table with their shields, but that's only 12.

Nice information, but if you want the fun element (as in Fistful of Lead threads)
a friend I went to school with (Many many years ago) did his own list of King Arthur's knights:-
(A few examples that I do remember)

Sir Pent (Snake), Sir Vis (With a smile), Sir Cull (Round), Sir Vile (If that is OK with you),
Sir Round (Attack from all directions), Sir Vive (Last to die), Sir Ender (First to give up),
Sir Loin (Beefy guy), Sir Fet (Had enough of him),  Sir Charge (Very taxing), Sir Face (Looks OK),
Sir Geon (Cut out for war),  Sir Vey (Looks over the battlefield),  Sir Real (Don't believe what he looks like),
Sir Row-Gett (Just a stand in),  Sir Prize (Didn't expect him),  Sir Plus (A bishop) & Sir Lee (Never polite).

Funny, but not at all where I am going with this.  ;)

Offline has.been

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Re: Heraldry/Livery of the Knights of the Round Table
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2020, 06:56:08 AM »
That is fine, your toys your choice.

Offline Bodvoc

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Re: Heraldry/Livery of the Knights of the Round Table
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2020, 12:52:34 PM »
The hardback version of the Pendragon rpg has it's own system of heraldry, illustrated on the inside cover pages if I recall this correctly. Sadly I got rid of mine a while ago but a look at the Pendragon/Chaosism website may be of help?
'If I throw a 6 I will do my happy dance.

Offline Cat

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Re: Heraldry/Livery of the Knights of the Round Table
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2020, 01:45:26 PM »
The hardback version of the Pendragon rpg has it's own system of heraldry, illustrated on the inside cover pages if I recall this correctly. Sadly I got rid of mine a while ago but a look at the Pendragon/Chaosism website may be of help?

I never owned the book, but played in a campaign long ago.  The book, and game, are brilliant!

Offline Sir Walter Rlyeh

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Re: Heraldry/Livery of the Knights of the Round Table
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2020, 04:56:04 PM »
I would argue that King Arthur, being one of the Nine Worthies was history. Maybe obsolete history...

Offline Randell

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Re: Heraldry/Livery of the Knights of the Round Table
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2020, 11:58:50 PM »
I would argue that King Arthur, being one of the Nine Worthies was history. Maybe obsolete history...

Debunked history may be more accurate.

Offline Galtisant

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Re: Heraldry/Livery of the Knights of the Round Table
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2020, 01:26:06 PM »
I too have a project to paint up the Thunderbolt Mountain Arthurian knights, which I started some fifteen years ago. With fantastic timing I restarted this work about a year after Thunderbolt Mountain shut down, so have been trying with limited success to find alternative figures to finish the collection.

As a Heraldic reference I started this with the Pendragon sourcebook "The Arthurian Companion" by Phyllis Ann Karr as my main source. Unfortunately, though a very useful guide to the Arthurian myths, the Heraldic information is not that reliable. In addition to one or two serious mistakes, a few of the arms appear to come from distinctly non-medieval sources, such as the illustrations by Howard Pyle. Ironically though, Howard Pyle's rather super drawings were one of the key inspirations for Tom Meier when sculpting his Arthurian range.

Probably the best book on Arthurian Heraldry is: Armorial des chevaliers de la Table Ronde : Etude sur l'héraldique imaginaire à la fin du Moyen Age by Michel Pastoureau (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/2863772066/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_taft_p3_i6)

You can also go back to the original sources, as copies of most of the Armorials referenced by Michel Pastoureau can be found online. Here are some examples:

Morgan http://ica.themorgan.org/manuscript/page/1/76850
Harvard https://iiif.lib.harvard.edu/manifests/view/drs:15190736$1i
329 https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Armorial_Table_Ronde_BML.djvu?uselang=fr
1435 http://archivesetmanuscrits.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/cc44901w
1436 http://archivesetmanuscrits.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/cc44912b
1437 http://archivesetmanuscrits.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/cc44923s
1628 https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bara_Jer%C3%B4me_-_Le_Blason_des_armoiries_-_1628.djvu?uselang=fr
4976 http://archivesetmanuscrits.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/cc852056
5024 http://archivesetmanuscrits.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/cc852412
12148 http://catalogue.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/cb33344747p
12597 http://archivesetmanuscrits.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/cc135972
14357 https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Trait%C3%A9_du_blason_MS14357_BnF.djvu?uselang=fr
L-2012-0017890 https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:La_devise_des_armes_des_chevaliers_de_la_Table_ronde.djvu?uselang=fr

The Armorials from the Morgan, 1437, 4976 are particularly good.


Offline Tarnegol

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Re: Heraldry/Livery of the Knights of the Round Table
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2020, 08:11:47 PM »
Probably the best book on Arthurian Heraldry is: Armorial des chevaliers de la Table Ronde : Etude sur l'héraldique imaginaire à la fin du Moyen Age by Michel Pastoureau

Many thanks, added to my shopping list!

Offline Sinewgrab

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Re: Heraldry/Livery of the Knights of the Round Table
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2020, 01:23:24 AM »
Thank you!  That is a comprehensive list.

Offline FierceKitty

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Re: Heraldry/Livery of the Knights of the Round Table
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2020, 01:54:32 AM »
Monty Python would be as good as anything here.
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Offline has.been

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Re: Heraldry/Livery of the Knights of the Round Table
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2020, 06:53:42 AM »
'Well, we are (ostentatiously) a Python worshipping country'
Whenever two or more are gathered together...'
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