Author Topic: Minimum Range For Mortars and Artillery (Read 12847 times)

Driscoles · « **on:** July 24, 2009, 07:32:47 AM »

Hi,

we dont have minimum ranges in the T+T rules book. We solve those things by common sense but I think its definately an important rule that we simply forgot.

So, what do you think are minimum ranges for mortars and ari in a T+T game.
The rules say that guns have no limited ranges. They can shoot all over the table.
You usually play on a 4 x 6 Table.

Thanks for your help and suggestions.
Björn

Emir of Askaristan · « **Reply #1 on:** July 24, 2009, 09:01:04 AM »

Some time ago Mustasha Pasha and I were playing a WW2 demo game at the Gordon Highlanders Museum in Aberdeen (excellent place, please visit!). We were discussing being able to fire the mortar through trees and one of the guides, an ex soldier, told us that they had been using the mortar in Burma to shell enemy positions and as a round left the tube it hit a bird which was disturbed by the noise. the round exploded and wounded the crew and so in the future they always tried to make a small clearing.

anyway...

I'd suggest that mortars can fire at ranges under say 12inches. That would "look" about right. 2" mortars seem to have a minium range of around 125yrds

twrchtrwyth · « **Reply #2 on:** July 24, 2009, 08:13:53 PM »

@Emir:Did you mean that mortars CAN'T fire at under 12".

I don't think that artillery should have a minimum range. The elevation of artillery guns means you could fire point blank if you wanted.

Hammers · « **Reply #3 on:** July 24, 2009, 08:24:37 PM »

Quote from: twrchtrwyth on July 24, 2009, 08:13:53 PM

@Emir:Did you mean that mortars CAN'T fire at under 12".

I don't think that artillery should have a minimum range. The elevation of artillery guns means you could fire point blank if you wanted.

Firing shrapnel or HE at point blank surely must put the gun crew at risk.

twrchtrwyth · « **Reply #4 on:** July 24, 2009, 08:34:06 PM »

Quote from: Hammers on July 24, 2009, 08:24:37 PM

Quote from: twrchtrwyth on July 24, 2009, 08:13:53 PM
@Emir:Did you mean that mortars CAN'T fire at under 12".

I don't think that artillery should have a minimum range. The elevation of artillery guns means you could fire point blank if you wanted.

Firing shrapnel or HE at point blank surely must put the gun crew at risk.

Never said it was a good idea, just that it was possible.

Doomhippie · « **Reply #5 on:** July 26, 2009, 02:31:05 PM »

I guess it depends on the type of gun you are firing with. However, before we start writing lists which gun has wich minimum range I'd suggest something simpler:

How about minimum range = size of template of gun?

It still looks rather close for my taste but after all this is not reality.

Another possibiltiy is of course minimum range = maximum range of scatter role.

That way no gun's shot can actually fall behind it. That would make some sense, I guess. And it's easy to play, no need to start worrying about too many details.

twrchtrwyth · « **Reply #6 on:** July 26, 2009, 04:59:02 PM »

I like your template idea but mortars should have a longer minimum than field guns. How about mortars use the next size template up?

Doomhippie · « **Reply #7 on:** July 26, 2009, 05:00:23 PM »

Quote from: twrchtrwyth on July 26, 2009, 04:59:02 PM

I like your template idea but mortars should have a longer minimum than field guns. How about mortars use the next size template up?

No problem with that.

Arlequín · « **Reply #8 on:** July 28, 2009, 10:45:45 AM »

Mortars and Howitzers (Not guns) are unable to fire within certain ranges due to the minimum elevation of the weapon. What this distance is varies with the weapon. The Italian Brixia Mortar could go to quite a low elevation, so this would allow closer-in firing. Obviously as said, the minimum range should at least be the blast range of the shell/bomb. Myself I'd probably go for at least double the template size, otherwise the crew could just throw the bombs.

Plynkes · « **Reply #9 on:** July 28, 2009, 10:53:58 AM »

To fire a mortar at extremely short range wouldn't you want maximum elevation, rather than minimum, Jim?

I recall seeing a photo once of I think it was Red Devils at Arnhem. They are firing a mortar during close-up street-fighting and the tube is pointing practically at the vertical. Isn't that going to come down near you, rather than a long way off? The caption to the photo said the angle of the tube indicated how close the enemy were they were firing on.

I'm asking, rather than telling, as I have no experience of mortars in real life.

Emir of Askaristan · « **Reply #10 on:** July 28, 2009, 11:46:40 AM »

Sorry I meant CAN'T

twrchtrwyth · « **Reply #11 on:** July 28, 2009, 12:08:26 PM »

Quote from: Emir of Askaristan on July 28, 2009, 11:46:40 AM

Sorry I meant CAN'T

Thought so. What do you think of the ideas so far?

Driscoles · « **Reply #12 on:** July 28, 2009, 01:04:14 PM »

I like the ideas but have no conclusion yet.
I remeber that at the Tactica convention the direct ari fire deviated behind the gun. That is silly and we used common sense.
I was thinking of a ruler lenght for mortars. In germany a ruler length is 30 cm. Is that the same in england ?
The large template for ari might be an idea...

Plynkes · « **Reply #13 on:** July 28, 2009, 01:07:02 PM »

Our rulers are 12"/30cm, with cm up the one side, and inches up the other (or on opposite faces with the metal type of ruler).

Doomhippie · « **Reply #14 on:** July 28, 2009, 04:48:21 PM »

30cm sounds good to me. I know there are hundreds of arguments against these close ranges but I think the overall idea should be that this is a game and not reality.

Isn't 12 " the maximum for charge distance also? That would sound reasonable as the mortar crew would probably switch to rifles to fend off any attackers.

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