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Author Topic: Russian Civil War/Back of Beyond Rules?  (Read 5844 times)

Offline SJWi

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Russian Civil War/Back of Beyond Rules?
« on: May 10, 2020, 05:28:55 AM »
I am mainly an Ancients/Medieval and WW2/Cold War gamer, but many years ago did venture into RCW and Back-of-Beyond with Copplestone's beautiful 28mm figures. I was inspired by the Peter Hopkirk series of books.  The only ruleset seemingly available then was the Back-of-Beyond supplement to "Contemptible Little Armies", and these really didn't work for me.  my interest has been re-invigorated  by what I've seen on this forum and I'm thinking of maybe dusting off my figures and revisiting the period.

What rules would people suggest for 28mm?

Thanks

PS I've also just bought some of the Empress/ Tsuba German 1918-19 figures plus the 1st Corps Erhardt armoured car. 

Offline Byblos

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Re: Russian Civil War/Back of Beyond Rules?
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2020, 10:06:08 AM »
The Perfect Captain ! ===> "Red actions" and the Campaign system "Beyond the river Don" !

http://perfectcaptain.50megs.com/redactions.html

And the work of Pigmy Wars!

http://pygmywars.com/gaming/gamingpages.html


Offline juergen c. olk

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Re: Russian Civil War/Back of Beyond Rules?
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2020, 12:54:26 PM »
I use "Setting the East Ablaze" along with it;s wondeferful supplements. everybody needs to find rules that suit them..like a glove or good Chefs Knife..I have many unused rulebooks..sigh...But I feel these rules embody the spirit of the period..and you can always tweek rules to your groups style of gaming..

Offline Inkpaduta

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Re: Russian Civil War/Back of Beyond Rules?
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2020, 05:55:58 PM »
Contemptible Little Armies would work too.

Offline trev

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Re: Russian Civil War/Back of Beyond Rules?
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2020, 01:11:50 PM »
Hi SJ,

I haven't actually played any games with my troops yet but I'm planning to and so thinking about rules and therfore in a similar boat to you.  Here are my thoughts so far based on what I've seen and read.

Red Actions! looks to be the obvious choice for period flavour and authenticity.  Especially if you also use Mark's excellent updates and army organisations from Pygmy Wars.  I throughly recommend you take a good look at the Red Actions! and Pygmy Wars links Byblos posted even if you don't play the rules as the information on both sites is great.  The RA campaign system is probably quite easily transferred to another system too.  The rules are for element based moderate sized battles not really pulp heroics and were originally for 15mm figures but should work with 28mm and single basing quite easily.  Infantry units are 10-20 figures or thereabouts.  Personally, I had an issue that my club mates had tried some Perfect Captain rules before and while some of us loved them they were a bit involved for those less 'into' the period.  Definitely worth a look though.

The next obvious contender is "Setting the East Ablaze" from our very own Ignatieff and his 'League of Extraordinary Kriegspielers' chums.  I've got the rules and two of the scenario books which are again great work.  There are lots of scenarios, ideas and pictures to inspire you whether you play them or not.  The rules are mostly single figure basing and lean a bit more in the fun than simulation direction but seem to cope well with historical scenarios.  Units are mostly 10 figures with irregulars being a bit bigger.  They are big (very big in the League's case) skirmish rules and judging by the action reports look great and lots of fun.

Some other possibilities I was considering were two of the Osprey series.  'The Men Who Would Be King' are one of Lion Rampant series I think but really for the colonial period.  However, I've seen them used for later conflicts too.  We played a big Sudan game using these rules last year and it was loads of fun.  They are about the same level as Setting the East Ablaze in game size.  Maybe a good option if you already like Lion Rampant.  https://ospreypublishing.com/the-men-who-would-be-kings

Another Osprey option is 'A World Aflame'.  I don't know much about these but I think they would work too, although maybe for slightly smaller games than the others.  https://ospreypublishing.com/a-world-aflame-interwar-wargame-rules-1918-39

A dark horse option is Wiley Games 'A Fistful of Lead series'.  Originally a wild west rule set, they have brached out into other periods with great success.  I've seen some great looking games played using the various versions from original wild west to other historical periods, sci-fi and fantasy.  Each player only has a handful of figures, so this is a small scale skirmish set but seems to cope with multiple players in teams.  They have a turn mechanic involving playing cards I really like the look of and I expect the core rules would work well for small Pulp scenarios if you wanted a more 'great game' level of espionage play.  They have just brought out a 'Bigger Battles' set too that uses the same core mechanics to reflect units instead of individuals.  I'm keen to try these out.  https://wiley-games.myshopify.com/

Those Tsuba figures look very nice and I'm just writing this whilst waiting for a wash to dry on my 1st Corps Austin now.  :D  It's a really nice model, so I'm keen to see your Erhardt when it's done.  If the resin needs any slight ajustment dip it in really hot water for a few seconds and it softens up wonderfully for careful bending.   Don't scald yourself.  ;)

Offline NurgleHH

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Re: Russian Civil War/Back of Beyond Rules?
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2020, 06:16:26 PM »
I mention “Triumph&Tragedy” and “Fistful of Leads: Big Battles”. Both great rules. James Morris used a lot T&T.
Victory Decision Vietnam here: leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=43264.0

Victory Decision Spacelords here: leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=68939.0

My pictures: http://pictures.dirknet.de/

Offline SJWi

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Re: Russian Civil War/Back of Beyond Rules?
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2020, 07:54:45 PM »
Chaps, thanks for the recommendations .I've just downloaded "Red Actions" and will read over the weekend. I have Triumph and Tragedy, Setting the East Ablaze version 1 and Osprey's "The World Aflame".  I enjoyed T&T, couldn't get on with the Osprey set ( the lack of a QRS was an irritant), and for some reason I can't recall had a few issues with V1 of Setting the East ablaze.  I may buy V2.

The Erhardt is edging closer to the front of the painting queue.... 

Offline VonAkers

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Re: Russian Civil War/Back of Beyond Rules?
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2020, 11:18:41 PM »
SJWi
Mate you probably have not thought of this ..however.. :o :o
We have used WW2 Boltaction Rules , for our  Large Multiplayer Games.
They work very well , and actually work  far better for this period  than WW2 imho .
Try them ..!!!
Cheers
Ps we give cavalry one attack against other Cav , but two against infantry, and the Cav can counter charge always other cav.. works well

Offline madman

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Re: Russian Civil War/Back of Beyond Rules?
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2020, 11:24:10 AM »

Triumph & Tragedy sounds interesting but it gets tiring being advised of vapourware. If you want to pay through the nose it is barely available and the company website is now gone and replaced with the usual BS links.

Offline Nogbad

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Re: Russian Civil War/Back of Beyond Rules?
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2020, 04:29:48 PM »
One that I recommend is Trumph of the Will. First rules invented by Two Fat Lardies and it looks as if they didn't even proof read them before moving on to something else (none of the game examples, for instance, are actually correct!)......BUT I think they're really well thought out.  They capture the peculiarity of civil wars which most rules don't - how morale was crucial and how well-motivated troops could cut a swathe through unmotivated ones.
In the case of the RCW, I also like that they acknowledge the power/importance of cavalry in the conflict,  altho these rules cover the whole interwar period.
They're fairly simple and there are some rules which don't work well - the clunky command/orders system particularly - but they can be dispensed with. Like Contemptible LA they are pretty bloody but they don't necessitate singly based figures (a pet hate of mine for purely aesthetic reasons). The rules are cheap and can be downloaded.
You mention adapting the Men Who Would Be Kings. Others have done that but personally I don't think it's ideal. Those rules were written to allow western armies to fight tribal ones and I think they lose their flavour when it's two western armies fighting each other


Offline Nogbad

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Re: Russian Civil War/Back of Beyond Rules?
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2020, 04:42:41 PM »
...Oh and one more thing - they don't require lots of markers littering up the table, which I don't like either!

Offline madman

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Re: Russian Civil War/Back of Beyond Rules?
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2020, 06:48:43 PM »
One that I recommend is Trumph of the Will. First rules invented by Two Fat Lardies and it looks as if they didn't even proof read them before moving on to something else (none of the game examples, for instance, are actually correct!)......BUT I think they're really well thought out.  They capture the peculiarity of civil wars which most rules don't - how morale was crucial and how well-motivated troops could cut a swathe through unmotivated ones.
In the case of the RCW, I also like that they acknowledge the power/importance of cavalry in the conflict,  altho these rules cover the whole interwar period.
They're fairly simple and there are some rules which don't work well - the clunky command/orders system particularly - but they can be dispensed with. Like Contemptible LA they are pretty bloody but they don't necessitate singly based figures (a pet hate of mine for purely aesthetic reasons). The rules are cheap and can be downloaded.

Thank you for giving some detail as to what you like about these rules. Many people just like or don't but can't or won't state why. I think I will pick them up but not for RCW, which I like but for larger actions using Red Actions or the Pygmy wars or Cuprum's variations. I want to do more modern civil war or Bongolesia sort of thing in skirmish and ideas on implementing the effects of morale and motivation on those sorts of games sounds good.

Offline Truscott Trotter

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Re: Russian Civil War/Back of Beyond Rules?
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2020, 02:59:36 AM »
Very interesting about ToTW - now the biggie do they have Tachankas?

Offline Nogbad

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Re: Russian Civil War/Back of Beyond Rules?
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2020, 04:16:25 AM »
Nyet. At least I don't think so. But it has special rules for armoured trains, cheka, priests, commissars, cossacks and ex-Tsarist military advisors, Comrade.

Offline Truscott Trotter

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Re: Russian Civil War/Back of Beyond Rules?
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2020, 12:35:13 AM »
Excellent - it wouldn't be too hard to house rule them for Russians and Poles