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Author Topic: Looking for Images/Books of Palaeologos Dynasty Byzantines Circa 1453  (Read 3843 times)

Offline Atheling

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Darrell.

I've been trying to pull something together for this army for years a few pics of my take on it below.
The figures are conversions and some figures commissioned via Ebob some years ago.
Very elusive period.

Oddly enough, someone sent me a link to your Blog on this very same subject.

There are some absolutely superb conversions in there!  :-* :-* :-*

Offline HappyChappy439

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There are some absolutely superb conversions in there!  :-* :-* :-*

Highly agree!

Gotta say, this thread has definitely given me the bug for wanting to convert up some Byzantines of my own lol !

Offline Atheling

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Highly agree!

Gotta say, this thread has definitely given me the bug for wanting to convert up some Byzantines of my own lol !

I don't know whether to congratulate you or commiserate  lol

Offline Diablo Jon

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Darrell.

I've been trying to pull something together for this army for years a few pics of my take on it below.
The figures are conversions and some figures commissioned via Ebob some years ago.
Very elusive period.

Those are brilliant.


Yeah, and few few other 'artwork' type books such as The Eastern Romans, 330-1461 but I'm dubious about the authenticity of some of the plates- thing is, I don't really know how accurate they are at this moment in time. :)

Well those figures above look like they just walked out of an Osprey colour plate and they look pretty good to me.

I get what you are say though I have Ospreys on the Greek Persian war and Carthaginian armies that have plates that look pure fantasy in light of more recent research...Punic pikemen anyone?

Offline Atheling

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recent research...Punic pikemen anyone?

I'd forgotten about the Punic Pikemen  lol lol lol

Maybe my brain was attempting to protect me :)

« Last Edit: May 20, 2020, 07:01:27 AM by Atheling »

Offline Captain Harlock

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now you got me the bug to sculpt some late Romans  lol

Offline Atheling

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now you got me the bug to sculpt some late Romans  lol

Do it! In 28mm per chance?

Offline Captain Harlock

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Do it! In 28mm per chance?

yes, I had a small start with a 10th century cataphract but then I stopped and sculpted my Hoplites

Offline Captain Harlock

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these are brilliant!  :-* :-* :-* :-*

Offline Condottiere

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Re: Looking for Images/Books of Palaeologos Dynasty Byzantines Circa 1453
« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2020, 01:02:27 AM »
The Late Byzantine Army
Arms and Society, 1204-1453 Mark C. Bartusis


Ian Heath used this book as a reference for his Osprey, explaining why unit organization is barely mentioned, but I find it has too much raw data and not enough analysis. Also the ending is a mess, like Tolstoy's War and Peace, lol in it's glorification of the thematic troops vs "mercenary" tagmatics. I agree with Haldon's criticism: "...Bartusis' study necessarily assumes a great deal about the situation prior to its starting point so that the developments which preceded those discussed are ---understandably---barely mentioned." (page 3, Warfare, State and Society in the Byzantine World, 565-1204).

Savvas Kyriakidis' Warfare in Late Byzantium, 1204-1453, while using Bartusis as one of his sources, is much better organized book.

If you're patient with a Turkish to English translator, search for Bizans İmparatorluğu in Academia.edu.

Do you have Medieval Warfare Special: The Conquest of Constantinople?
Quote
    Eugenia Russel, Historical introduction – the destruction of the Oikoumeni
    Kenneth Cline, Constantine XI – no room to maneuver
    Murat Özveri, Mehmed ‘the Conqueror’ – A sultan of paradoxes
    Nicola Bergamo, Venice, Genoa and Byzantium – difficult ‘trio'
    Konstantin Nossov, The walls of Constantinople
    Stephen Bennett & Nils Visser, The Conquest of Constantinople
    Murray Dahm, Fallout – Contemporary reactions to the loss of Constantinople
    Lukasz Rozycki, The fall of the Old World through the eyes of the “Polish janissary”
    Raffaele D’Amato, The last defenders – the Roman army
    Vassilis Pergalias, The final opponents – the Ottoman army
    Ben Sheppard, Aftermath
The figures in D'Amato's article are derived from his book, The Eastern Romans 330-1461 AD, and while I think he think he tends to prefer the gaudy, I doubt they're inaccurate. The plates might look like they're derived from Ian Heath's Osprey, but more than likely both used the same sources.

Timothy Dawson and Graham Sumner's By the Emperor's Hand: Military Dress and Court Regalia in the Later Romano-Byzantine Empire covers post 13th Century Byzantines.



David Nicolle's Last Roman Elite from Military Illustrated #134 covers the stradiotai - see attachment below.

Some interesting images in Rare illustrations of Byzantine warriors at the renaissance book ‘Erotokritos’ of Vitsentzo Kornaro, though there's a caveat: The Erotokritos.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2020, 12:26:34 AM by Condottiere »

Offline Atheling

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Re: Looking for Images/Books of Palaeologos Dynasty Byzantines Circa 1453
« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2020, 09:46:48 AM »
Thanks again for the info Condottiere- always appreciated  8)

Do you have Medieval Warfare Special: The Conquest of Constantinople?

No, that's not one that I bought  :-X :-[

I'll put it on order now![/quote]

The root of the problem is essentially that I'm going to have to overcome are:

i/ I'm going to have to convert a lot of models- even choosing a place to begin is problematic.

ii/ Pay a sculptor to do it for me and release a range that I'm guessing won't sell very well as it will be perceived as a one shot 'army'.


Offline HappyChappy439

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Re: Looking for Images/Books of Palaeologos Dynasty Byzantines Circa 1453
« Reply #26 on: June 06, 2020, 01:58:48 PM »
Thanks @Condottiere!

At the moment I think I'm scratching my head over what sort of miniature to use as a base for plated-mail or 'mirror' armour, at first I was thinking using Mamluk figures as a base, but it looks like those are just as hard to find as the Byzantines!

There's a few paintings with leather(?) jerkins over tunics as well, so I was wondering whether the Perry WotR infantry liveried bodies could be adapted (with a bit of green stuff) to reflect that, but that might take some experimenting!

For lighter infantry, Old Glory Ottomans (with headswops) might work, I'm not sure how well they scale with other ranges though!

Offline Condottiere

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Re: Looking for Images/Books of Palaeologos Dynasty Byzantines Circa 1453
« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2020, 12:57:06 AM »
 :o lol

I forgot to mention the anthology, A Companion to Medieval Arms and Armour. It's been a reference been a reference since 2005! It could be found for ~50% on Amazon.

Arms and Armour of the Late Roman Army - Jon Coulston
Scandinavian Weaponry in the Tenth Century: The Example of Denmark - Anne Pedersen
The Metallurgy of Medieval Arms and Armour - Alan Williams
The Earliest European Firearms - Marco Morin
Some Aspects of Early Byzantine Arms and Armour - John F. Haldon
Suntagma Hoplon The Equipment of Regular Byzantine Troops, c.950 to c.1204
The Lost Shield of Baldwin of Flanders and Hainault, First Latin Emperor of Constantinople - Claude Gaier
Later Byzantine Arms and Armour - Andrea Babuin
The Mutual Influence of Europe and Asia in the Field of Arms and Armour - Helmut Nickel
Arms and Armour in South-Eastern Europe in the Second Half of the First Millennium AD - Michael Gorelik
Close Combat Weapons in the Early Abbasid Period: Maces and Axes - Shihab al-Sarraf
Jawshan, Cuirie and Coat-of-Plates: An Alternative Line of Development for Hardened Leather Armour - David Nicolle

Babuin mentions possible Turkish influence on Byzantine clothing and armor, since the Roman Emperor was a vassal of the Ottomans in the late 1300s, contrasting with Dawson's theory of Turkish clothing and gear being influenced by the Byzantines. It's hard to tell who influenced whom, though Janissary clothing looked more like what was worn by people of the Balkans and Anatolia instead of looking like something from the Steppes.

Someone other than the author uploaded the entirety of Warfare in Late Byzantium, 1204-1453 to Scribd, but I won't link to it, as I dislike copyright infringement.