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Author Topic: Thinking of starting Successors  (Read 47830 times)

Offline Jjonas

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 421
  • Ancient Modeler
    • Ancient Hellenistic Battles mostly
Re: Thinking of starting Successors
« Reply #30 on: June 04, 2020, 07:40:29 PM »
The latest Wargames Soldiers and Strategy Magazine # 108 has an article that attempts to summarize how to build elements of an Early Successors army for games.
The focus is on "Crossover Troops" that can be used in many different flavors of Successor armies. It is brief but hopefully a helpful start. I often see this kind of question asked online (as here on this board)  and directly to me, so I felt it was worth the self plug :)



More info at:
https://www.karwansaraypublishers.com/wss-issue-108.html
JJonas

Offline Atheling

  • Elder God
  • Posts: 11905
    • Just Add Water Wargaming Blog
Re: Thinking of starting Successors
« Reply #31 on: June 04, 2020, 07:49:14 PM »
I've just finished reading that very article Jeff. I like the table at the end- makes planning an army for the various successor states  an easier job :)

Offline mc_deli

  • Bookworm
  • Posts: 64
Re: Thinking of starting Successors
« Reply #32 on: June 05, 2020, 06:45:01 AM »
Good tip on the article. I bought the mag. But... it's pretty thin and not rule-specific. And the rest of the mag is very 20th century-orientated, so YMMV. The mag is brilliantly formatted though - nice to see ads! - just wish it was for ancients - and yes, I already subscribe to Ancient Warfare from the same publisher;)

At least I am quite happy that I have been through a load of lists from the rules I want to play more (ADLG) and used some army list spreadsheets to check on unit numbers etc.

On one hand there's no problem having an even bigger lead mountain (!) but it's so easy to get the numbers of units way off (I have some old WRG-age Greek-related light troops and only 1/3 of them will see the table under ADLG).
 
Chariot, camel, elephant and commander numbers are also really important as that's where the cash rapidly disappears!

My logic was to plan ahead to be able to field 2 massive (ish) armies head-to-head for Bactrian-Indian and Alexandrian Macedonian (at 400 points in ADLG speak) and then check those troops off against the different Successor options and all the classical Greek and Asia Minor lists. I'm maybe 60% there after getting into it at Xmas. I have left off the Ptolemaic list is it's probably the outlier, though (in ADLG) it only takes a few optional Nubian/Bedouin lights to swing it... hmm...

That said, the article did remind that Thureophoroi are the one troop I don't have in the mountain that would help for some Greek lists and I must commit to some Galatians.

Happy painting!






Offline Jjonas

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    • Ancient Hellenistic Battles mostly
Re: Thinking of starting Successors
« Reply #33 on: June 05, 2020, 10:07:53 PM »
I've just finished reading that very article Jeff. I like the table at the end- makes planning an army for the various successor states  an easier job :)

Thanks. That table was the reason why I fleshed it out with text. My thought experiment as a former educational/games software person was that tables can impart much more information than words, and with greater retention value. A table similar this was originally in the original WAB Armies of Antiquity book, and I felt it was a great asset for answering questions. Visually one coudl find that the armies that had the most possible historical opponents intersected and were Nomads and Alexander.

There were a couple of other tables that did not make it into the Magazine (which the web version will have eventually):




Offline Jjonas

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Re: Thinking of starting Successors
« Reply #34 on: June 05, 2020, 10:21:07 PM »

Good tip on the article. I bought the mag. But... it's pretty thin and not rule-specific. And the rest of the mag is very 20th century-orientated, so YMMV. The mag is brilliantly formatted though - nice to see ads! - just wish it was for ancients - and yes, I already subscribe to Ancient Warfare from the same publisher;)

------> Yes, I really did not know where the article would land. The editor likes to have some articles that are not related to the theme.
 
Chariot, camel, elephant and commander numbers are also really important as that's where the cash rapidly disappears!

------> I agree. I did try to stay rules agnostic

My logic was to plan ahead to be able to field 2 massive (ish) armies head-to-head for Bactrian-Indian and Alexandrian Macedonian.

------> Good choices as these offer many interchangeable units and can be the core units of a Nomad or Indian army.



Offline mc_deli

  • Bookworm
  • Posts: 64
Re: Thinking of starting Successors
« Reply #35 on: June 06, 2020, 06:51:44 PM »
Hope you get to write more on this!


Offline Easy E

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1928
  • Just some guy who does stuff
    • Blood and Spectacles
Re: Thinking of starting Successors
« Reply #36 on: June 08, 2020, 04:13:27 PM »
That crossover is part of what I love about the period!
Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
https://www.patreon.com/Bloodandspectaclespublishing

Offline Westbury

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 743
  • Gaming from Gondolin
    • Westbury Wargamers
Re: Thinking of starting Successors
« Reply #37 on: June 08, 2020, 09:41:10 PM »
Sorry, been away a while, real life and all that  :(
Thanks again for the inputs.
Yes I did read the Soldiers and Strategy article - I get it delivered! Actually it came at just the right time as I was floundering a bit on which troops would be best for the two of us doing the project to concentrate on so we could get the best bang for our buck! Thanks Jeff.
Also ploughing through all my old copies of Slingshot - maybe I'll rejoin Society of Ancients  ???
Still no further forward on rules, going to play through the several sets I've got this week using cardboard templates. Will keep you posted. ADLG?

Offline Jjonas

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 421
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    • Ancient Hellenistic Battles mostly
Re: Thinking of starting Successors
« Reply #38 on: June 08, 2020, 09:58:35 PM »
Glad it was of help at the right time!

The key focus was to allow folks to see at a glance a shopping list of units so they could get the kind of personal feedback that we get from our miniature game armies. It's disappointing if you buy a whole Antigonid army and then decided that suddenly you love scythed chariots. Of course that is what "Crossover" is all about- you are not high and dry and can mix and match. But if you wanted to start with Seleucids then at least this kind of info gives you a head start.

As for rules, that is such a personal choice. I feel "To The Strongest" is tailored to Successors very well. "Hail Caesar" also. I don't currently have a favorite popular rules set for massed battles.

Offline Westbury

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Re: Thinking of starting Successors
« Reply #39 on: June 17, 2020, 05:23:28 PM »
Have started play testing the various sets of rules I have around the house as well as those I have borrowed off colleagues - trying to avoid spending multiples of £20+ and then end up with a pile of rules I don't want/can't use so reviews are going to be super important here.
First on the table was To The Strongest and I have to confess I absolutely hated it - apologies to those who like the rules but they just were not for me. I'll post my in depth thoughts on the blog next week sometime but for now I'll just draw a veil over the experience  :-[

Offline SJWi

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1638
Re: Thinking of starting Successors
« Reply #40 on: June 17, 2020, 06:02:13 PM »
Westbury, I love TTS but can understand why you don't. I have sane, rational mates who will tolerate them just to play a game but don't like them. Equally another bunch play all the Two Fat Lardies  games and have rushed to pre-order "Infamy, Infamy", whilst others think they have lost their marbles! I am just about to buy Simon McDowell's "Comitatus" which are specifically aimed at the Late Roman/Early Byzantine period.     

Offline Westbury

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 743
  • Gaming from Gondolin
    • Westbury Wargamers
Re: Thinking of starting Successors
« Reply #41 on: June 17, 2020, 07:57:19 PM »
SJWi.
Don't get me started on the TFL cult  :o
I like Simon's work and in fact have just recently downloaded and printed off his Civitates Bellantes which are aimed at the classical period so I'll see how they go - might try them next in fact  :)

Offline Jjonas

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 421
  • Ancient Modeler
    • Ancient Hellenistic Battles mostly
Re: Thinking of starting Successors
« Reply #42 on: June 17, 2020, 08:24:13 PM »
I fully understand that TTS is not for everybody. I cannot get folks to play it myself. But I will say it is an great display or convention rules set where it is easier to get novices into the swing of things quickly. That seems to be the point nowadays. I reckon I like TTS because it is one of the rule sets that presentation is fantastic especially for the early Successors.

Here is a set of photos- some from the WSS article and some that did not make it in:

http://www.ancientbattles.com/Early_Successors_Armies_JJonas/Early_Successor_Armies_AncientBattles_2020.html
« Last Edit: June 17, 2020, 08:27:23 PM by Jjonas »

Offline Jjonas

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  • Posts: 421
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    • Ancient Hellenistic Battles mostly
Re: Thinking of starting Successors
« Reply #43 on: June 17, 2020, 08:30:03 PM »
This is a newer page on Cretan archers. Agrianians to come shortly.

http://www.ancientbattles.com/Cretan_Archers/Cretan_Archers_AncientBattles_2020.html


Offline Westbury

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Re: Thinking of starting Successors
« Reply #44 on: June 18, 2020, 05:29:44 PM »
Jjonas
You haven't convinced me on the rules, but great link, thank you.

 

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