British Tank Markings - A Guide

[SquireBev]

BEF Corps Troops, based on Taylor's Warpaint Vol. 3



Comments, corrections, feedback etc etc - keep it coming.

[SquireBev]

And now, at the risk of opening a massive can of worms regarding errors and omissons, my first attempt at diagrams for the 79th Armoured Division. Just snapshots for now - I'm still working on a timeline to show regiment and brigade movements, like the one for independent brigades posted on the previous page.

If anyone can offer any more sources regarding regiment movements, please do! I'm getting bogged down flicking between Bellis booklets, with some regiments either being in two places at once, or disappearing completely!

https://tank-markings.blogspot.com/p/79th-armoured-division.html
 

[SquireBev]

Well, here goes nothing...

[Jemima Fawr]

Excellent work once again!

I'll try to dig out the information again, but 33rd Armoured Brigade changed its serials (again!) on arrival in 79th Armoured Division, as by that time they were using the 50-53 scheme and they clashed with those of 30th Armoured Brigade.  They then used serials 54+.

As you say, units come and go between brigades willy-nilly and I'm not sure if a lot of these were mere 'attachments' rather than permanent assignments.  I get exactly the same problem trying to track the movement of Indian Army units between brigades and divisions.

Speaking of which, I've found the official 1945 serials for an Indian Tank Brigade and I've drawn the correct version of the 254th Indian Tank Brigade badge, so will post those later.

[SquireBev]

As you say, units come and go between brigades willy-nilly and I'm not sure if a lot of these were mere 'attachments' rather than permanent assignments.  I get exactly the same problem trying to track the movement of Indian Army units between brigades and divisions.

Indeed. I started off trying to colour-code it according to seniority, but soon realised I was on a hiding to nothing.

At some point I'll muster the motiviation to add AoS serials to the timeline itself. Honest...

[FreakyFenton]

Cracking job and thank you for the taken effort!

[Jemima Fawr]

Here's one amendment for the list: 144 RAC was re-named as 4 RTR on 1st March 1945 and continued to be equipped with Buffalo. 144 RAC therefore ceased to exist from that point forth and was not reformed.

[Jemima Fawr]

Here's the scheme for an Indian Tank Brigade from 1944.  254th Indian Tank Brigade were initially using a different system (3, 4, 5, 6 for the Bde HQ and Tk Regts), but adopted this scheme at the end of operations in 1945:

Bde HQ - 50 on red-over-yellow
1st Tk Regt - 51 on red-over-yellow
2nd Tk Regt - 52 on red-over-yellow
3rd Tk Regt - 53 on red-over-yellow
Light Tk Regt (if present) - 37 on red-over-yellow
Motor Bn - 54 on red
Engineer Field Squadron - 41 on cobalt blue
Armoured Delivery Sqn - 38 on red-over-yellow
Independent Bridging Tp - 55 on red-over-yellow
Tk Workshop Coy - 98 on red-over-yellow-over-blue
Tk Tps Workshop - 134 on red-over-yellow-over-blue
Tk Bde Recovery Coy - 101 on red-over-yellow-over-blue
Ordnance Fd Park - 97 on blue/red/blue
Tk Transporter Coy - 47 on red-over-green
General Transport Coy - 56 on red-over-green
Provosts - 83 on black
Fd Post Office - 44 on black

(IEME and signals detachments assigned to Bde HQ and IEME LADs assigned to Tk Regts had the same serials, though with their corps colours)

Some units were using plain red squares instead of red-over-yellow.  Squadron signs were a nightmare...

[fred]

Cracking work. Great to see all this presented so clearly.

Seeing 1st Tank Brigade there, with its Grant CDLs, someone must have thought these were going to be really useful to had gone to the trouble of converting a whole brigade. I only recall reading about the odd use of them, and then as guide lights for night operations. Where they ever used as intended?

[Jemima Fawr]

Cracking work. Great to see all this presented so clearly.

Seeing 1st Tank Brigade there, with its Grant CDLs, someone must have thought these were going to be really useful to had gone to the trouble of converting a whole brigade. I only recall reading about the odd use of them, and then as guide lights for night operations. Where they ever used as intended?

The US Army had a brigade-sized force of them as well.  Their effects were thought to be so severe that their release was only to be authorised at the highest level, along with things like gas and nuclear weapons!  In the event, they were used in an attempt to blind defenders during the Rhine crossing, but proved to do little other than be massive mortar-magnets. 

However, they did prove to be extremely useful in their mission to defend the Nijmegen bridges against attack by midget submarines.  The strange light-effect was far more effective at illuminating underwater objects than standard searchlights.

[fred]

Thanks, I did a bit of reading up in them after posting my question. It does seem they were too secret to be used, but then not that effective. The wiki article notes they were used at Remagen as well to help defend the bridge against various under water attacks. Strange that they code name ended up being rather close to what they were mainly used as.

It does also indicate the material superiority of the Allies that they could have 2 brigades of tanks (and crews) that ultimately weren’t used. It’s hard to imagine the Germans ever being close to this, they would have been sending them out to fight as gun tanks. With the way most rules are focused on vehicle stats and points the overall allied material superiority just doesn’t get factored in.

[Jemima Fawr]

Yes indeed.  I've never really understood why they were considered to be a 'war-winner' in the first place to attract such a high level of investment, only then to be (largely) binned before they'd seen any action.

Funnily enough, the American ones were based only about 5 miles from where I'm sitting in west Wales, prior to being embarked for Normandy and the farmers have occasionally found various bits of Lee dumped in various corners of their land (there is a water-filled quarry full of softskin vehicles and other kit - I wonder if there's a CDL in there as well? ). 

[Etranger]

One of my idler ponderings is what effect a CDL Brigade would have on the Germans' much vaunted IR equipment? I suspect that there would be some very serious damage done to the IR capability.

[SquireBev]

Here's one amendment for the list: 144 RAC was re-named as 4 RTR on 1st March 1945 and continued to be equipped with Buffalo. 144 RAC therefore ceased to exist from that point forth and was not reformed.

I'll see if I can squeeze it in!

[SquireBev]

AGRAs!



https://tank-markings.blogspot.com/p/europe-higher-formation-organisation.html