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Author Topic: Second Afghan War Elephant Battery Guns?  (Read 3251 times)

Offline ARKOUDAKI

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Re: Second Afghan War Elephant Battery Guns?
« Reply #45 on: August 05, 2020, 07:40:00 PM »
Italwars, with all due respect, you clearly don't know much about law and definitely don't have a grasp of the tenets of 'copyright' law. Hence, I would suggest you read up on it before you go off making statements that lack adequate legal basis. To reiterate, what you are suggesting is illegal, as it would be copyright infringement of the designer's intellectual property, and the law is pretty clear on that subject.

End of discussion.

Offline ARKOUDAKI

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Re: Second Afghan War Elephant Battery Guns?
« Reply #46 on: August 05, 2020, 07:45:24 PM »
Quote
Arkoudaki it seem that you ve instead plenty of time if you represent this guy with the aim of trying to sell both the product and a supposed to be license plenty of time for the same object ..probably your doing worst than supporting piracy (as you just Seem to admit) If your aim is to ask people to pay twice for the same item..I’m sorry for you but you ll not get my money

Italwars you are totally out of line, accusing me of what amounts to criminal activity, which is without any basis and subject to libel. I have notified the moderators of your misconduct.

You clearly can't read and don't have a clue what you are talking about. Your just one of those 'flamer' types.

Offline italwars

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Re: Second Afghan War Elephant Battery Guns?
« Reply #47 on: August 05, 2020, 07:49:54 PM »
I invite you to study and obtain a university degree! I know better than you ..what YOU seem to support (the designer attempt ) it’s illegal ..even if you ‘re nt aware of that..PS: your proposal of oblige to pay  twice For the same item as nothing to do with copyright ..are you joking? Please

Offline italwars

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Re: Second Afghan War Elephant Battery Guns?
« Reply #48 on: August 05, 2020, 07:55:09 PM »
I did the same Report to the moderator following your insults!!! very curious about why you represent this designer bizarre commercial policy!

Offline Westfalia Chris

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Re: Second Afghan War Elephant Battery Guns?
« Reply #49 on: August 05, 2020, 07:56:47 PM »
I invite you to study and obtain a university degree! I know better than you ..what YOU seem to support (the designer attempt ) it’s illegal ..even if you ‘re nt aware of that..PS: your proposal of oblige to pay  twice For the same item as nothing to do with copyright ..are you joking? Please

Italwars, please calm down right now. I suspect it may be a language problem, but Arkoudaki is quite right and you may be misunderstanding things.

Let me outline the issue at hand.

1. The designer created an own work. Assuming he holds the rights to said work and may exploit it economically, it is fully within his rights to sell licenses to others allowing said others to use said item.

2. This is relevant if the item is to be reproduced, in this case by 3d printing. For this, there would be two main options:

A) the owner issues a license including rights to the licensee to reproduce and sell the design. In this case, the licensor may be recompensed by a higher license price or ask for royalties for items produced and sold, but the latter will be very hard to police.

B) if the owner/licensor does not allow licensees to sell copies of the printed item, the proper way will be for each interested person to purchase a license that allows them to print it for personal use. Depending on the national legislation, the licensee might now task a third party (here, Arkoudaki) to print copies of the design for him if he doesn't own a printer himself, provided the printer does not profit financially from it or the tasking of a third party is explicitly allowed.

Another example: if you purchase a downloaded file, e.g. a PDF of a wargames magazine, you may not sell copies of said file unless specifically authorised to do so by the terms of said purchase. Depending on the national legislation, you should be allowed to re-sell the original item without keeping a copy for yourself.

To sum up: if you buy the 3d file, modify and print it for your own use, this should be okay and covered by the license. If you sell copies to third parties or pay a third party to produce it on your behalf, this must be allowed by the license.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2020, 08:11:53 PM by Westfalia Chris »

Offline italwars

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Re: Second Afghan War Elephant Battery Guns?
« Reply #50 on: August 05, 2020, 08:01:41 PM »
Ok i calm down
But from a legal point the statement “each one has to buy a license” and above all “nobody can swap, sell ecc a product derived from that software” is wrong if not fraudolent but I’ve not said that! The poster A. Is reporting something which is totally absurd from a legal point of view ..is like to say “you can buy my nespresso coffee machine but you can’t prepare coffee “
And finally I didn’t ask anything to A. But if he advertise an unknown seller or designer that want Me before  selling a me a product also buy his license I cannot accept that without  saying a word
That S the end of my post
« Last Edit: August 05, 2020, 08:15:30 PM by italwars »

Offline Jack Jones

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Re: Second Afghan War Elephant Battery Guns?
« Reply #51 on: August 05, 2020, 08:30:13 PM »
Ok i calm down
But from a legal point the statement “each one has to buy a license” and above all “nobody can swap, sell ecc a product derived from that software” is wrong if not fraudolent but I’ve not said that! The poster A. Is reporting something which is totally absurd from a legal point of view ..is like to say “you can buy my nespresso coffee machine but you can’t prepare coffee “
And finally I didn’t ask anything to A. But if he advertise an unknown seller or designer that want Me before  selling a me a product also buy his license I cannot accept that without  saying a word
That S the end of my post

Well … I am a designer working in the UK, and my work is protected by the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988. I can assure you that It gives me complete control over who uses my work and the terms of usage.

Offline italwars

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Re: Second Afghan War Elephant Battery Guns?
« Reply #52 on: August 05, 2020, 08:35:54 PM »
I m happy for you but I suppose you ve 3 Alternative options :
A) sell the item (miniature , tank ecc)
B) sell the license (or software)
C) sell nothing
Really difficult to understand from a legal point of view and from a business one how to pretend that your customers have to accept 2 options together and adding that even you have the license you’ve to buy for each item a new one ?...
I should resist to be carried out by this real incredible discussion ..i prefer historical than fantasy 😉
« Last Edit: August 05, 2020, 08:44:27 PM by italwars »

Offline Westfalia Chris

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Re: Second Afghan War Elephant Battery Guns?
« Reply #53 on: August 05, 2020, 08:44:16 PM »
Ok i calm down
But from a legal point the statement “each one has to buy a license” and above all “nobody can swap, sell ecc a product derived from that software” is wrong if not fraudolent but I’ve not said that! The poster A. Is reporting something which is totally absurd from a legal point of view ..is like to say “you can buy my nespresso coffee machine but you can’t prepare coffee “
And finally I didn’t ask anything to A. But if he advertise an unknown seller or designer that want Me before  selling a me a product also buy his license I cannot accept that without  saying a word
That S the end of my post

Italwars, re-reading this I really think you are misunderstanding the issue.

The site linked offers for download a digital file containing a 3d model of the gun in question, which may then be used by the purchaser on a strictly personal level. The creator is not selling a "physical" product, e.g. an actual model of the gun. Neither is Arkoudaki proposing selling the item if he purchased it, but rather doing someone a favour who bought the item but doesn't own a printer.

If you buy this 3d model, then modify it so that it will print all right, this is well within your rights.

You may not make this model available to others who didn't pay for it, be it for sale or for free. You must also not sell 3d prints of the 3d model, since the original terms of the purchase, I.e. the license, do not allow you to do this.

The main question is: may someone print this item for you and be recompensed for his cost of material, time and electrical energy? He must not do so if only he owns a license, since he may not redistribute it, since it would deprive the original file author of his due revenue.

That said, the shape of the gun isn't that bad. Given good plans, one could easily do their own design using a free solution like Tinkercad.

Offline italwars

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 894
Re: Second Afghan War Elephant Battery Guns?
« Reply #54 on: August 05, 2020, 08:53:17 PM »
Sorry Westafalia Chris I cannot understand that ..thanks for your patience but I cannot understand why should I buy a license and become a proud owner of a tool that would allow me to print even 100 miniature guns and
and then ask somebody else to print it for me at a cost of one license for every model🤨🤨

Ok I’ll not add anything more on that ..sorry but it’s too much for my brain

Said that an Elephant battery big gun in 28mm is really a heavy piece ..TSATF rules book should probably allow no more than one shot every two turns and only at long range..I ll better scratch build one and mount it on my Britain plastic elephants of which I own at least ten without any license

Offline Westfalia Chris

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Re: Second Afghan War Elephant Battery Guns?
« Reply #55 on: August 05, 2020, 09:12:22 PM »
Sorry Westafalia Chris I cannot understand that ..thanks for your patience but I cannot understand why should I buy a license and become a proud owner of a tool that would allow me to print even 100 miniature guns and
and then ask somebody else to print it for me at a cost of one license for every model🤨🤨

Ok I’ll not add anything more on that ..sorry but it’s too much for my brain

Nobody is asking you to do that. You are supposed to buy one licensed file, after which you could modify it yourself and print it as many times as you like for your personal use.

Every person who would want at least one print of the gun would need to buy one (1) license first, not one (1) for each printed model. One license per person, not one per gun model printed.

I'm sorry, but you clearly misread what was discussed earlier in this thread.

Offline Dr DeAth

  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • Posts: 2692
    • My Little Lead Men
Re: Second Afghan War Elephant Battery Guns?
« Reply #56 on: August 05, 2020, 09:34:26 PM »
FYI, my next big project is printing a Star Wars Clone Wars LAAT (ie Republic Gunship) for my son in 1/47 (Legion scale). That should be interesting...and time consuming

That looks an interesting model - will you be in a position to offer a similar service as the one you are proposing for the gun?  I'd be interested in a 1/100th scale for 15mm.

Re the IP and Copyright for it, where would I purchase a license?  I'm assuming the originator of the 3D files has permission from Disney?

Photos of my recent efforts are at www.littleleadmen.com and https://beaverlickfalls.blogspot.com

Offline ARKOUDAKI

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 738
Re: Second Afghan War Elephant Battery Guns?
« Reply #57 on: August 05, 2020, 09:50:34 PM »
@Dr Death
Quote
That looks an interesting model - will you be in a position to offer a similar service as the one you are proposing for the gun?  I'd be interested in a 1/100th scale for 15mm.

Sorry but I am not offering any 'printing services', as my time is far too valuable. My original input on this thread was to help out Atheling (Darrell) on this project, nothing more, as he has helped me out in the past and I was just returning the favor. :)

If you go on Thingiverse you might find what you are looking for. https://www.thingiverse.com/search?q=republic+gunship&type=things&sort=relevant

If so, you just need to download the file, and print it out yourself or pay someone to print it out for you. There are loads of companies that do this but they are usually expensive.


Offline Atheling

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Re: Second Afghan War Elephant Battery Guns?
« Reply #58 on: August 06, 2020, 07:45:19 AM »
Hi,

Apologies for being a little blunt/slightly didactic here..... this is not a great thing to behold when one has just finished gulping down ones morning coffee.....

1/ This thread was originally a quest to find out what equipment was depicted in the image I originally posted re:Second Afghan War Elephant Battery Guns.

2/ Many people have been very helpful and I thank you for your kindness.

3/ ARKOUDAKI is going out of his way to help me. He is being attacked on grounds that are at best flaky and most likely deliberately contentious and quarrelsome.

4/ If you have nothing to offer the conversation in regard to the theme of the original post please butt out and stay out. I am sorry to have to use such language but the LAF I remember being a part of was a fora for wargaming, painting etc and not an amphitheatre for legal debate.

Again, sorry for being so prescriptive about the content of the thread but this is getting very out of hand and has drifted dramatically away from the point.


Offline Dr DeAth

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Re: Second Afghan War Elephant Battery Guns?
« Reply #59 on: August 06, 2020, 08:47:57 AM »
Hmm,  didn't mean to be contentious or quarrelsome, I jumped in to the thread mid way so didn't see the op about the gun.

I was just asking about licensing from Disney out of genuine interest, there seem to be lots of people making Star Wars items and I suspect not all of them have Disney's permission. I don't want to fall foul of copyright laws by printing unlicensed items.

As ARKOUDAKI has made it clear his printing service won't extend to Star Wars, but will be limited to the specific artillery piece in various scales, I'll leave this thread to those that need the gun  :)




 

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