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Author Topic: What to use for "Eastern infantry" for Seleucids/Greco-Bactrians?  (Read 1593 times)

Offline Fremitus Borealis

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So I'm slowly building an army (well, I guess 1.5 armies...) To eventually use as Seleucids and Greco-Bactrians. While I've been able to find pretty good options for most of the troops, one thing I've noticed a bit of a lack of out there is models that are specifically meant to be, like, "Cappadocian hillmen" or "Bactrian native infantry" and so on.

I know Wargames Atlantic just came out with a great box of Persians, and Victrix is supposed to be coming out with diverging similar soon, but before I wade into kitbashing purgatory, I was just curious what any of you have used for this type of unit. Suggestions on manufacturer/brands would be most welcome, if indeed options exist!
"Nice try, history; better luck next year."

Offline aphillathehun

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Re: What to use for "Eastern infantry" for Seleucids/Greco-Bactrians?
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2020, 10:59:35 PM »

I could be way wrong about this, but I tend to think of these as fairly non-descript types in an army and I have a bunch of generics for them.  (I do the same for archers).  I think Persians would be fine for eastern types.  Old Glory makes a bag of Skythian infantry that seem to do the job.  They also make a bag of Sarmatian infantry that I would use for things like Cappadocians.  I could be persuaded that something is better, but if you have a bunch of troops around like that you can use them for all sorts of not-very-specific types in an army that is defined by other troops.

I think the Bactrians had some mountain indians in their armies and I was never quite sure what to use for those.  The Indians of classical indian armies didn't seem quite right.  Probably Persian looking types would be better.

Looking forward to better answers.....


Offline Fremitus Borealis

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Re: What to use for "Eastern infantry" for Seleucids/Greco-Bactrians?
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2020, 12:36:14 AM »
Oh yeah, I'd forgotten that Essex have an actual "Bactrian" range, because there are almost no pictures of it on their website! I did order some of their cavalry though as I recall, as I had seen what they actually look like on Jeff Jonas' website :D

Thanks for the tip on Newline, I'd forgotten all about them. Any idea how they "size up" compared with other ranges? I see that Newline actually have a good deal of "mountain Indians" that Aphillathehun mentioned, which could work quite well, assuming they're not lilliputians compared with other ranges (though it's not really a deal breaker for me, it's nice to be able to mix and match if I want). 


Offline Cyrus1

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Re: What to use for "Eastern infantry" for Seleucids/Greco-Bactrians?
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2020, 01:13:14 AM »
Newline ranges are nice, solid chunky figures, compatible with most 28mm. Their Mountain Indians are the only 28mm range that I know of. Even better they have a 25% off sale until 7 August  :). I just ordered some of their Parthian infantry...

Offline delbruck

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Re: What to use for "Eastern infantry" for Seleucids/Greco-Bactrians?
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2020, 12:53:03 PM »
Aventine have Sassanid foot in tunic, trousers, & short boots - with seperate heads and shields. Cappadocians would normally have a small or medium shield with bose, and usually wear a version of the phrygian cap. Later types would probably use a thureos, perhaps with some Hellenistic helmets. Aventine makes a variety of seperate heads and shields, but they aren't usually listed seperately on their website.  I think you could use these figures for unarmoured eastern pikemen, thureophoroi, javelinmen, or archers.

Offline Fremitus Borealis

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Re: What to use for "Eastern infantry" for Seleucids/Greco-Bactrians?
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2020, 09:03:36 PM »
So I've been mulling over the Newline figures, but the cost of shipping across the pond is what's hanging me up. The figures look really nice, and some of them really are unique, as far as I have seen.

Offline Irregular Wars Nic

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Re: What to use for "Eastern infantry" for Seleucids/Greco-Bactrians?
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2020, 09:52:41 AM »
I suspect delbruck's suggestion is as good as you are going to get.

The problem with native contingents is not that they were all the same. Herodotus' account of the polyglot look and equipment of the Achaemenid army would be at least partially valid for the region right the way through antiquity. I would suggest that the problem we face is the nature of the sources which generally lump 'Orientals' together as a homogenous whole.

As I play in 6mm, the problem can be glossed over a bit. I use a mix of Achaemenid and Parthian ranges to fill out my Seleukid armies. At that scale, nobody really questions it. At larger scales, using Achaemenid, Parthian, or even Sassanid ranges with a few headswaps to provide a few Hellenistic helmets is probably the way to go.

The closer to the Mediterranean coast, the more Hellenised you could argue a group to be. By the 2nd century BC, Idumaeans, Kilikians, Ituraeans, Lykians etc in could probably be represented as thureophoroi.

Offline aphillathehun

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Re: What to use for "Eastern infantry" for Seleucids/Greco-Bactrians?
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2020, 12:11:35 PM »

Great to know about the Newline Mountain Indians!  That's got me rummaging through ancient army lists again.

Offline Jjonas

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Re: What to use for "Eastern infantry" for Seleucids/Greco-Bactrians?
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2020, 03:17:28 AM »
I have the Newline Cappadocians. They have swords but can be converted to Javelins/spears.

Mountain Indians are also a Newline speciality.

Newline may seem smaller than Victrix- but what isn't.

Other places to explore are Old Glory Parthian infantry- or Scythian infantry,sadly the volume you get may be more than needed. PRP-5 are somewhat useful:

https://www.oldgloryminiatures.com/proddetail.asp?prod=PRP-05

I use PPH-04 for Bactrian Sogdian foot for those city fights:
https://www.oldgloryminiatures.com/proddetail.asp?prod=PPH-04

The biggest issue is I dont need 30 of them.
Jeff J

Offline Fremitus Borealis

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Re: What to use for "Eastern infantry" for Seleucids/Greco-Bactrians?
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2020, 12:12:50 PM »
Thanks for the tips, Jeff. The numbers thing is actually something I've been thinking about, actually, since I'm not 100% sure how many of anything I do need, heh.

As I mentioned in other threads, I've pretty much defaulted to Hail Caesar rules, but I'm a bit fuzzy on the distinction between "light infantry" and "skirmishers" and what this means in terms of numbers of models and how to base them.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2020, 03:19:05 PM by Fremitus Borealis »

Online Askellad

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Re: What to use for "Eastern infantry" for Seleucids/Greco-Bactrians?
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2020, 09:47:19 AM »
Hi,
I plan to kitbash Victrix Dacians and Persian Atlantic to create some eastern stuff, maybe It will make the sogdian/bactrian way.
And read the last Wargames soldier and strategy, there is a good article for the Afghan campaign of Alexander.

Offline Jjonas

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Re: What to use for "Eastern infantry" for Seleucids/Greco-Bactrians?
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2020, 05:25:12 PM »
Hi,
I plan to kitbash Victrix Dacians and Persian Atlantic to create some eastern stuff, maybe It will make the sogdian/bactrian way.
And read the last Wargames soldier and strategy, there is a good article for the Afghan campaign of Alexander.

Sounds good- sorry I did not get to add too many detailed photos of Bactrians and Sogdians. A lot of my stuff is older 25's and they stay back in support.

But in that article you can see I used Old Glory and Newline Design as Bactrian horse from this period, with a mix of Casting Room mixed in for Satrapal types.
The infantry did not make it into the article set-up (they never do :) ) Some of the characters are from the Old Glory Command set PAC-03
Eastern Horse Peoples High Command. They are quite useful for this period and later Bactrians and even Kushan types:

https://www.oldgloryminiatures.com/proddetail.asp?prod=PAC-03


This Obscure Connelly painting has a useful peek at frontier infantry:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/59/80/c0/5980c04e14d67487e827d2f19fb37fe8.jpg

This is nice color info:



« Last Edit: August 10, 2020, 05:30:54 PM by Jjonas »

Offline Fremitus Borealis

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Re: What to use for "Eastern infantry" for Seleucids/Greco-Bactrians?
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2020, 10:26:15 AM »
Sounds good- sorry I did not get to add too many detailed photos of Bactrians and Sogdians. A lot of my stuff is older 25's and they stay back in support.

But in that article you can see I used Old Glory and Newline Design as Bactrian horse from this period, with a mix of Casting Room mixed in for Satrapal types.
The infantry did not make it into the article set-up (they never do :) ) Some of the characters are from the Old Glory Command set PAC-03
Eastern Horse Peoples High Command. They are quite useful for this period and later Bactrians and even Kushan types:

https://www.oldgloryminiatures.com/proddetail.asp?prod=PAC-03


This Obscure Connelly painting has a useful peek at frontier infantry:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/59/80/c0/5980c04e14d67487e827d2f19fb37fe8.jpg

This is nice color info:

Good stuff! Those paintings are especially great. Where's the Connelly "frontier infantry" one from?

Offline Jjonas

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Re: What to use for "Eastern infantry" for Seleucids/Greco-Bactrians?
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2020, 04:42:12 PM »
"Where's the Connelly "frontier infantry" one from?"

That is a good question. I don't' have all Connolly's books, but it is not in any of the ones I have. I have only seen it on the web.

My guess it is in here:

https://www.amazon.com/Greeks-Rebuilding-Past-Roy-Burrell/dp/0199171610

This also seems part of that book:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/35/66/aa/3566aa25363c582d771843aafd735e4b.jpg

 

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