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Author Topic: Did battalions of French reserve grenadiers throw out skirmishers?  (Read 4708 times)

Offline olicana

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I'm getting close to finishing my Napoleonic French army for the Peninsular, with just six units left to do, and amongst the lead pile are two 'battalions' of reserve / converged grenadier companies.

Originally, I had planned to do a couple of stands of skirmishing grenadiers for each then, because of their 'shock troop' nature, I decided not to. Now I'm dithering again - skirmishers or no skirmishers?

Except in the broadest terms (e.g. elite shock troops) I have no idea how these troops operated. Did they throw out a company to skirmish in the advance, or did they keep their companies concentrated? My heart tells me the latter but, it's just a hunch.

I have the figures in pile so there is no issue there. Shelf room is at a premium so that's a slight factor. With skirmishers, when the cupboard is bare and no other figure are available, they could double as extra units of line more easily. With skirmishers painted and available, I might deploy them more often than I historically should when they deploy as 'battalions' of reserve grenadiers.

Skirmishers, yes or no? Thoughts please.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2020, 09:20:35 AM by olicana »

Offline tallyho

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Re: Did battalions of French reserve grenadiers throw out skirmishers?
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2020, 10:07:51 AM »
Surely they would be able to operate with skirmishers if needed.

Offline waterproof

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Re: Did battalions of French reserve grenadiers throw out skirmishers?
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2020, 12:16:54 PM »
In the historical context the Grenadier stands for the massive advance. Strong men of great stature who were able to make the enemy sway with a bayonet attack. This should also be reflected in your project of the French army. To me, skirmishing grenadiers are a contradiction in terms.
I say no skirmishing grenadiers.

Offline Belgian

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Re: Did battalions of French reserve grenadiers throw out skirmishers?
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2020, 12:23:42 PM »
Not an expert but would say that the Voltigeurs were the skirmishers while the Grenadiers were the troops mainly used alongside the Fusiliers (ordinary line soldiers). If grouped in seperate units I guess these would indeed be hold in reserve and used to lead attacks and counter attacks along with taking more difficult objectives such as storming villages and buildings etc. That's what I have always thought but can be very wrong though.
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Offline Harry Faversham

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Re: Did battalions of French reserve grenadiers throw out skirmishers?
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2020, 01:21:54 PM »
There's no way Grenadiers go scuttling about like mice in a field. Grenadiers hit the enemy like a thunderbolt from the Gods!

:o
"Wot did you do in the war Grandad?"

"I was with Harry... At The Bridge!"

Offline olicana

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Re: Did battalions of French reserve grenadiers throw out skirmishers?
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2020, 05:39:23 PM »
At the moment, counting my own dithering opinion, that's 4:1 who think probably not because of the 'shock troop' status thing.

My hunch was that grenadiers are all about the blatant threat of brute force, not shilly-shallying behind a screen - as a grenadier, you want the enemy to see you coming and "be afraid, very afraid", so to speak.

Unless someone comes up with something solid to the contrary, I'm going for no skirmishers.

« Last Edit: August 12, 2020, 05:41:06 PM by olicana »

Offline Jemima Fawr

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Re: Did battalions of French reserve grenadiers throw out skirmishers?
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2020, 07:06:51 PM »
Most definitely yes.  For example at Friedland, where entire brigades of grenadiers and carabiniers were deployed into 'grande bandes' of skirmishers.

In any case, 'Grenadier' battalions often contained companies of carabiniers or would be brigaded with battalions of massed carabiniers, so if you don't fancy it, just do some skirmishing carabiniers to support your grenadiers.
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Offline Ray Rivers

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Re: Did battalions of French reserve grenadiers throw out skirmishers?
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2020, 07:15:06 PM »
Most definitely yes.  For example at Friedland, where entire brigades of grenadiers and carabiniers were deployed into 'grande bandes' of skirmishers.

In any case, 'Grenadier' battalions often contained companies of carabiniers or would be brigaded with battalions of massed carabiniers, so if you don't fancy it, just do some skirmishing carabiniers to support your grenadiers.

This.

Offline Jemima Fawr

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Re: Did battalions of French reserve grenadiers throw out skirmishers?
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2020, 07:19:47 PM »
Another example from Auerstadt 1806 of grenadiers being deployed as skirmishers:  While not formed into elite battalions, the elite companies (grenadiers and voltigeurs) of the 3rd (depot) Battalions of the regiments of Davout's 3rd Corps were sent to war with their parent regiments, where they were used to thicken the regimental skirmish screens.

Offline FramFramson

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Re: Did battalions of French reserve grenadiers throw out skirmishers?
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2020, 07:54:44 PM »
Just goes to show that proper research beats a preponderance of suspicion.  :D


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Offline olicana

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Re: Did battalions of French reserve grenadiers throw out skirmishers?
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2020, 08:24:37 AM »
That'll be with skirmishers, then.

Glad I asked the question. Oh, what a fool I would have looked if I hadn't. The button counters would have a field day.

Tattered but, not ripped to shreds,

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Offline Baron von Wreckedoften

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Re: Did battalions of French reserve grenadiers throw out skirmishers?
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2020, 07:01:49 AM »
Worth noting that the Grenadier battalions of the Imperial Guard could also throw out skirmishers if required.
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Offline Harry Faversham

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Re: Did battalions of French reserve grenadiers throw out skirmishers?
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2020, 07:40:24 AM »
I was reading of an Old Guard attack which had a full Battalion of Guard  Chasseurs deployed as skirmishers.

:)
« Last Edit: August 14, 2020, 07:42:21 AM by Harry Faversham »

Offline tallyho

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Re: Did battalions of French reserve grenadiers throw out skirmishers?
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2020, 10:17:35 AM »
To suggest grenadiers, the better trained and disciplined troops, weren't trained or capable of throwing out skirmishers if the tactical situation demanded is ludicrous.

Of course they could and would skirmish, and has been noted, historically its documented.

You're all falling into the wargamer mindest of certain troop types having rigid roles and abilities.

Offline waterproof

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Re: Did battalions of French reserve grenadiers throw out skirmishers?
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2020, 11:02:23 AM »
That's right.
The question also relates to wargaming.
Of course, grenadiers also skirmishers passed over skirmish formation when the situation required it, or put up an screen of skirmishers.
But this does not reflect the actual function of this infantry type.
The real character of a grenadier in wargaming is that he is an elite infantryman who is strong in attack and tough in defense.  He serves as support and backbone for the young fusilier recruits.
Otherwise it would be boring if everyone could do everything in wargaming, no matter if Grenadier, Voltigeur, Fusilier or Chasseur.


 

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