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Author Topic: Wargames Atlantic Persians: How far east and/or how late?  (Read 983 times)

Offline WuZhuiQiu

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 918
Wargames Atlantic Persians: How far east and/or how late?
« on: September 23, 2020, 12:06:50 AM »
Wargames Atlantic are now having a bit of a sale on their Persians, but I have not yet been drawn into gaming the Greek and Achaemenid Persian conflicts. Thus, I am wondering how far east and/or how late might they be used? For example, are they close enough that they should not be too difficult to convert into Parthians, Palmyrans, or Judaeans? What about Sogdians?

Offline Fremitus Borealis

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  • Posts: 188
  • Magister Discipulorum
Re: Wargames Atlantic Persians: How far east and/or how late?
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2020, 12:58:18 AM »
I saw that sale and went ahead and bit the bullet on a few boxes myself.

I had a thread not too long ago about a similar subject: https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=126204.0

I'm hoping to use them in my crop of "generic eastern dirt-farming peasant masses", for what it's worth. I'm curious to see for myself how they mix in with other ranges. It's one thing to see someone else's pictures, but another to see it on your own table, right?  :)

"Nice try, history; better luck next year."

Offline SJWi

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 213
Re: Wargames Atlantic Persians: How far east and/or how late?
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2020, 09:45:51 AM »
No great expert but I wouldn’t think these could serve as Parthians as they are basically a cavalry army. From what I recall Palmyrans are quite different and again mainly light cavalry and Cataphracts. Can’t comment about Sogdhians.

Offline OmarR

  • Student
  • Posts: 19
Re: Wargames Atlantic Persians: How far east and/or how late?
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2020, 02:36:32 PM »
Parthians and Sogdians should be fine for spearmen and archers
Palmyrans or Judaeans I'm not sure on Palmyra probably a heavy Roman influence

 check out A and A miniatures for metal palmyrans and convert some plastic romans
https://www.aandaminiatures.co.uk/categories/?c=15


As for Judaeans you could try something with gripping beast arabs

Offline dpb1298

  • Student
  • Posts: 12
Re: Wargames Atlantic Persians: How far east and/or how late?
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2020, 04:53:37 PM »
These would be better Parthians. https://newlinedesigns.co.uk/product-category/newline-designs-28mm-ranges/newline-designs-28mm-ranges-ancients/newline-designs-28mm-ranges-ancients-parthian/

BTW, I have numerous boxes of the Atlantic Persians and love them! If interested, here's my assembled and painted ones. https://dpb1298historical.blogspot.com/

But, then again, the Newline ones would be more expensive. Main difference is in the headgear. They have those more floppy caps vs the Persian tiara, Babylonian helmet, Mede round hat and Cissian headband. Sogdians (pre-Tajiks [I've been to Tajikistan]) have different headgear too. https://sogdians.si.edu/

Cheers,
« Last Edit: September 23, 2020, 07:32:24 PM by dpb1298 »

Offline Fremitus Borealis

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Re: Wargames Atlantic Persians: How far east and/or how late?
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2020, 06:08:50 PM »
Thanks for the links! Good stuff :D

Offline Jjonas

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  • Posts: 119
  • Ancient Modeler
    • Ancient Hellenistic Battles mostly
Re: Wargames Atlantic Persians: How far east and/or how late?
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2020, 06:12:52 PM »
Wargames Atlantic are now having a bit of a sale on their Persians, but I have not yet been drawn into gaming the Greek and Achaemenid Persian conflicts. Thus, I am wondering how far east and/or how late might they be used? For example, are they close enough that they should not be too difficult to convert into Parthians, Palmyrans, or Judaeans? What about Sogdians?

This box is only infantry and is tuned to the Persian Wars with Greece period, although there are many variants that can be used in later armies- sadly not as useful for the list you asked for.

Parthians- Had very few foot troops. Their tunic cut is a V neck style. Many militia troops were used to man the walls of cities so that could be an option.

Palmyrans, or Judaeans? - Some conversion work for the former, Judeans much more difficult because of the cloaks and fringed garments.

What about Sogdians - Sogdians wore a special style of hat, which can be recreated with some conversions so I would say yes.

They also can be used as later Sassanian Persians to some extent, its all about how attached to details one is.

The variants that are slam dunks are Elymaian archers. Other Bosphoran or Caspian Sea, Eastern light troops in Successors and Bactrian armies.  Also it all comes down to how exacting you wish to be. The image posted below shows the level of subtlety in play.

But the Wargames Atlantic Persians are an excellent place to start.

Jeff J

Offline WuZhuiQiu

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 918
Re: Wargames Atlantic Persians: How far east and/or how late?
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2020, 01:29:01 AM »
Thank you, all! Now, to find some Sogdian hat references...
« Last Edit: September 24, 2020, 01:38:23 AM by WuZhuiQiu »

Offline dpb1298

  • Student
  • Posts: 12
Re: Wargames Atlantic Persians: How far east and/or how late?
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2020, 02:20:43 AM »
Thank you, all! Now, to find some Sogdian hat references...

This page has some. https://sogdians.si.edu/the-sogdians-abroad/

Offline Fremitus Borealis

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  • Posts: 188
  • Magister Discipulorum
Re: Wargames Atlantic Persians: How far east and/or how late?
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2020, 04:11:29 AM »
Yeah, basically looks like a good old Thracian/Phrygian cap, if you squint hard enough :)

Offline WuZhuiQiu

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 918
Re: Wargames Atlantic Persians: How far east and/or how late?
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2020, 02:04:50 PM »
This page has some. https://sogdians.si.edu/the-sogdians-abroad/

Thanks; that's a very interesting website!

Having read some more, would Kushans be a long stretch?
« Last Edit: September 24, 2020, 02:06:33 PM by WuZhuiQiu »

Offline aphillathehun

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 431
Re: Wargames Atlantic Persians: How far east and/or how late?
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2020, 12:30:52 AM »
This page has some. https://sogdians.si.edu/the-sogdians-abroad/

Just in case you didn't notice, these are from a period almost 1000 years later than the achaemenids....

Offline SJWi

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 213
Re: Wargames Atlantic Persians: How far east and/or how late?
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2020, 09:56:04 AM »
Good point. I think we all seem pretty blasé using “non-European” figures for a pretty wide timespan, but wouldn’t dare do the same for say Roman Legionaries.

 A good “lesson learnt” for myself!

Offline WuZhuiQiu

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 918
Re: Wargames Atlantic Persians: How far east and/or how late?
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2020, 01:34:55 PM »
Belted tunics and trousers were worn for centuries by archers who used recurve bows. If the costume is similar enough, and the incoherent details can be added or removed, then why not...?
« Last Edit: September 25, 2020, 01:42:23 PM by WuZhuiQiu »

Offline Jjonas

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  • Posts: 119
  • Ancient Modeler
    • Ancient Hellenistic Battles mostly
Re: Wargames Atlantic Persians: How far east and/or how late?
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2020, 05:15:45 PM »
Sogdian cap Persian Wars era, recreated from Persepolis reliefs. The devil is in the details.

« Last Edit: September 25, 2020, 05:53:19 PM by Jjonas »

 

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