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Author Topic: Wargames Atlantic Persians: How far east and/or how late?  (Read 3891 times)

Offline Jjonas

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 421
  • Ancient Modeler
    • Ancient Hellenistic Battles mostly
Re: Wargames Atlantic Persians: How far east and/or how late?
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2020, 05:39:43 PM »
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/ybmDwJ

Joan Francesc Oliveras Pallerols

Sogdian and other Alexandrian era artwork

« Last Edit: September 25, 2020, 05:43:18 PM by Jjonas »
JJonas

Offline WuZhuiQiu

  • Mastermind
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Re: Wargames Atlantic Persians: How far east and/or how late?
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2020, 05:47:46 PM »
Thank you once again, Jeff!

Offline AdamPHayes

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Re: Wargames Atlantic Persians: How far east and/or how late?
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2020, 05:56:56 PM »
Loving the bouffant Hollywood camel! :)

Offline dpb1298

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Re: Wargames Atlantic Persians: How far east and/or how late?
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2020, 02:54:40 PM »
Just in case you didn't notice, these are from a period almost 1000 years later than the achaemenids....

Yeah I know that page is dealing with mostly AD Sogdians; my point being that their fabric headgear does not appear to change that much in that time period, making the images still a useful reference.

This page has a BC Sogdian helmet if that's a better reference. https://www.livius.org/pictures/uzbekistan/samarkand/afrosiab-sogdian-helmet
What I was trying to convey was that I don't think the Persian tiara in the Atlantic set would satisfactorily represent Sogdian headgear. Anway, I think that the reference that Jeff cited is probably the best one we've got. 

Offline Fremitus Borealis

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Re: Wargames Atlantic Persians: How far east and/or how late?
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2020, 02:25:36 AM »
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/ybmDwJ

Joan Francesc Oliveras Pallerols

Sogdian and other Alexandrian era artwork

Thought I already replied to your post, but I guess I didn't :D

That artist is amazing  :o That was like a several-hour rabbit hole, so thanks a lot  lol
"Nice try, history; better luck next year."

Offline cadbren

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Re: Wargames Atlantic Persians: How far east and/or how late?
« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2020, 08:23:00 AM »
Good point. I think we all seem pretty blasé using “non-European” figures for a pretty wide timespan, but wouldn’t dare do the same for say Roman Legionaries.

 A good “lesson learnt” for myself!
"Celts" are viewed as generic from the Galatians in Anatolia to the Caledonians in northern Britain with little sense of difference between the Gauls who sacked Rome in 390 BC and the Caledonians who fought against Agricola almost 500 years later. Warlord Games even has some of their Celts as fantasy barbarians with random fur belts and other silliness. I'd say the Romans are the exception in that they're treated with a sense of progressing though time that other cultures are not, particularly "barbarian" tribes of Europe who should be more familiar to the average model company given that most appear to be made up of people descended from those barbarians.

Offline Wellington

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Re: Wargames Atlantic Persians: How far east and/or how late?
« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2021, 07:20:26 PM »
Sorry for changing the subject a little bit.

There is a lack of decent Scythian footsoldiers. Haven't had the box in my fingers now, but might it be possible th convert them to Scythians? Using Tracian heads oder convert the heads.
A life without Samurai is possible, but not desirable!

Offline Jjonas

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    • Ancient Hellenistic Battles mostly
Re: Wargames Atlantic Persians: How far east and/or how late?
« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2021, 09:12:48 PM »
I wouldn’t use any of the current Wargames Atlantic or Victrix for Scythians.
The jacket is different. Baggy pants. Hair styles and hats and boots are different. The Dacian Phrygian cap has no lappets so it’s a solution that needs lots of conversion work. Nobody makes a tall hat that I would like in this scale. warlord used to have some tall hatted Scythians.


Offline Wellington

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Re: Wargames Atlantic Persians: How far east and/or how late?
« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2021, 08:04:32 AM »
Thanks!

Offline Diablo Jon

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Re: Wargames Atlantic Persians: How far east and/or how late?
« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2021, 09:21:38 AM »
I wouldn’t use any of the current Wargames Atlantic or Victrix for Scythians.
The jacket is different. Baggy pants. Hair styles and hats and boots are different. The Dacian Phrygian cap has no lappets so it’s a solution that needs lots of conversion work. Nobody makes a tall hat that I would like in this scale. warlord used to have some tall hatted Scythians.

You are probably more of an expert than me but the tall hats would be the Saka?.It seems that, when I looked more closely into it , Scythian is a  broad term covered several groups of related people. I got the feeling although the culture was broadly similar Scythians from the Ukraine or Crimea where clearly recognised as different from the Saka in the east or the Parthians in Iran.

In my 20mm armies I just used hatless Parthians as generic horse archer nomads because I'm a cheap skate  :)

Offline Jjonas

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    • Ancient Hellenistic Battles mostly
Re: Wargames Atlantic Persians: How far east and/or how late?
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2021, 01:58:32 AM »
Saka, Sacae, and Scythians are just different names for the same folks.
However they did not all wear the same headdresses and hair styles.
Some of the Scythian tribes wore the pointy hats and the Persians called them the pointy hat wearers. Others were famous brigands so they were called “the robbers”.

But here is nicely done article:
https://www.livius.org/articles/people/scythians-sacae/
« Last Edit: June 11, 2021, 03:09:00 AM by Jjonas »

Offline Diablo Jon

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Re: Wargames Atlantic Persians: How far east and/or how late?
« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2021, 10:12:28 AM »
Saka, Sacae, and Scythians are just different names for the same folks.
However they did not all wear the same headdresses and hair styles.
Some of the Scythian tribes wore the pointy hats and the Persians called them the pointy hat wearers. Others were famous brigands so they were called “the robbers”.

But here is nicely done article:
https://www.livius.org/articles/people/scythians-sacae/

Cheers for that. The article helps reinforce what I had read before.  I know I had read somewhere that in the west you had Scythians and the east Saka (and the the Saka wore very tall hats) and in between you had the Dahae who gave rise to the Parthians. It makes sense that these people who are essentially the same peoples would, in the east, would be named by the Persians and those, in west, by the Greeks.

 

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