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Author Topic: Cathar Crusade  (Read 490 times)

Offline Silent bob

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 252
Cathar Crusade
« on: October 28, 2020, 08:12:22 PM »
Hi, does anyone know if the Cathar Rebels were 'peasants' or did they have' noble' followers...I'm flitting around
 trying to find a use for Crusader Minis 'Late Crudaders'. Thanjs

Offline Sir_Theo

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1026
Re: Cathar Crusade
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2020, 08:51:49 PM »
I've definitely visited Cathar castles as a kid on holiday in the South of France  so presumably some of them were noble.

Offline Patrice

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1336
  • Breizh / Brittany
    • "Argad!"
Re: Cathar Crusade
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2020, 09:02:35 PM »
I'm not a specialist (and I'm not from the area) but there were noblemen and knights on the Cathare side. However, as they had travelled and knew what was against them, they understood they were doomed and most of them were soon seeking for negociation, as this leader:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Roger_Trencavel

But you probably still could find some knights fighting till the end (?) if they knew that their opponents would not be kind to them.

Offline Atheling

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 9141
    • Just Add Water Wargaming Blog
Re: Cathar Crusade
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2020, 10:18:48 PM »
I would assume they came from all levels of society in that region.

It would be a little odd if it were just one strata of society.

Offline Maniac

  • Librarian
  • Posts: 105
Re: Cathar Crusade
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2020, 10:35:16 PM »
There were indeed numerous nobles who supported the Cathar cause.  Many of the local Languedoc nobles supported the Cathars against the Catholic forces from around Europe.

Try here for some useful information:

https://www.karwansaraypublishers.com/mw-issue-iii-4-2013.html

The pdfs are fairly cheap.

Either way, the nobles of the following areas sided with the Cathars at various points:

Toulouse, Beziers, Valentinois, Provence, Bearn, Aragon, Foix, Carcassone, and others (including Ramond of Trencavel, Raymond VI and VII of Toulouse, and Peter II of Aragon)
« Last Edit: October 28, 2020, 10:50:03 PM by Maniac »
On time, on target, or the next one's free

Offline Byblos

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 838
  • Les Echelles du Levant ...
Re: Cathar Crusade
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2020, 10:37:53 AM »
Hi !

I have a long-term project on the Albigensian Crusades, and I have done a lot of research on the subject

There were many lords, some very important including Toulouse, and many small lords, them frankly Cathars, who were the target of the crusade.

The structure of the "Cathar" armies was therefore quite classic for the time: knights (numerous, and mounted sergeants fought with them, not in separate units), sergeants (lancers and crossbowmen), militias and armed peasants.

on the other hand the crusaders did not have militias and armed peasants, but on the other hand mercenaries (Brabanšons in particular)

I have many banners of Cathar and Crusader lords: I put them in Word form, if you send me a PM with your Email address, I will send you the 2 files

At your disposal ;-)

Offline Antonio J Carrasco

  • Supporting Adventurer
  • Mad Scientist
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  • Posts: 863
Re: Cathar Crusade
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2020, 06:22:40 PM »
Mind that the Crusade was also an excuse to invade Provence, which implied that local nobles, even those without links to the Cathars fought against the "French" Crusaders. At a point, the king of Aragon intervened in the war, being killed in battle against Simon de Montfort at Muret (1213, 12th September). Cathars were a nice casus belli, but the real issue was if the Northerners were to control Provence, it would continue independent under the counts of Toulouse as the major player in the region, or would fall under Aragon's control.

 

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