Big Game Gaming - Is it Dead

[FierceKitty]

We never do anything without at least 250-300 figures a side, and that's a small action.

[bluewillow]

I hope not, I have thousands of figures that need big games to stay sane.......

cheers
Matt

[Sparrow]

Still happily “big gaming”  here!

[Yarkshire Gamer]

UshCha and others have questioned what a big game is ?

It's an interesting point and historically (in wargames terms) I think it's a very different beast in the 80s when I started to what it is today.

The whole premise of the argument is that there is a prevalence of "skirmish" games and those to me range from squad level game with a handful of figures say Gangs of Rome to the large skirmish games like say Bolt Action.

So for the purposes of this argument, today a large game is anything bigger than that. But when I started gaming a big game was thousands of figures on a huge table either at a show or a group of friends hiring a village hall for a weekend.

I often played and organised these games and have great memories of them, Leipzig at 33:1 on a huge table, 1st Day at Gettysburg etc. I definitely remember those games and not the DBA games I tried in the mid 90s with 10 stands on a 3 ft table.

Arguments have been made about how boring big games are or how it's just a group of mates playing a game when big games are seen at a (UK) show. I would say they are just badly run or badly organised games. Having run games at shows over the years we always had designated "chatters" on hand to speak to the public about the game and talk about the battle, terrain, figs etc.

But you cannot deny the joy of seeing a huge game of well painted figures on some beautiful terrain, that is a marvel in itself. A lot of hard work has gone into that. I'd rather see a huge game badly run than 2 people hunched over an exquisite table 3ft sq that I can't see properly unless it's through the lens of my camera.

The argument comes up a lot "you need too many figs", I will just paint these 20 figs for this game or that game. Large numbers of figures shouldn't put people off games it should inspire them !

I know these big games go on still, the old guard keep them going and it's great to here from you but this isn't a how big is my big game contest, it's an evangelical call for the return of the big game.

So back to the original question of this piece, What is a "Big Game". Honestly it's what you want it to be, it should be about aspiration, aim to play a platoon game if you play squad games now, Divisional games if you play Battalion Games.

Most people have or have had restrictions of time, space, money or opponents, mostly they don't last forever, dream big before you know it you could be running your own big game.

Thanks for a positive discussion (so far !)

Regards Ken
The Yarkshire Gamer

[AndrewBeasley]

...

It's funny, but people always feel the need to make snide remarks about demo-gamers on forums but never have the balls to do it face-to-face (or to actually put the effort in themselves).

I wonder if people go to model shows and later complain that they weren't allowed to play with the models...?

Personal attacks are not needed and in my case not justified.  I've run both large and small games at local and larger shows so think I have a right to say such things as that's what I've seen AND it's always been the big games that put the walls up not the little ones.


As for model shows - they clearly state 'no touching' Where as some games just ignore you when you enquire.

[Jemima Fawr]

Personal attacks are not needed and in my case not justified.  I've run both large and small games at local and larger shows so think I have a right to say such things as that's what I've seen AND it's always been the big games that put the walls up not the little ones.


As for model shows - they clearly state 'no touching' Where as some games just ignore you when you enquire.

My comments regarding snide criticisms were no more personal than:

"Hope so.  At least in the shows.  I struggle to think of a big game that I've seen where it's not been a group of mates out for the day and not fussed about the visitors. Add that to the long long turn times and you end up with a great but boring spectacle.


(Rant over)"

Pot.  Kettle.  Say again colour.  Over.

So you've seen badly-presented big games.  I've seen badly-presented small ones.  Big deal.  As hobbies go, wargaming is a broad church. 

Small skirmish games don't interest me.  Participation games don't interest me.  Competition games absolutely bore the arse off me.  But other people enjoy them and they're welcome to do so at the shows I frequent.  I want to see the great battles of history (and quite a few of the lesser ones) presented well and to discuss those games with their creators.  I'm rarely disappointed by the games I see at shows, so perhaps you need to attend some different shows instead of assuming that all demo games are as poor as the ones of your experience?

[Inkpaduta]

For me it is definitely space and time. Just not enough time and got tired of starting a big project and then painting for over a year to play it.
Of course now a days cost can also prove to be a factor. 

[Norm]

I have a foot in two worlds, boardgaming and figures.

I suppose some of my perspective comes from the fact that I can run my 'big battles' with boardgames that by default generally take up less space than I need even for a small figures game. My figures can then do small actions and each seems to compliment the other.

[Vis Bellica]

When I left university back in the days when new romance was a tribe not a section in Waterstones, I made the decision to collect only 15mm figures. I'd tried 25mm (space, expense, need to paint well) and I'd tried micro- and 6mm (just too small for me to give individual models any love), so settled on 15mm as the happy medium.

This has meant that my gaming since has been almost exclusively in the 150-500 figures on a six to eight foot by four to five foot table range.

When I first started, this was a standard-sized game, with anything smaller defined as a role-playing game (up to 50 figures on the table) or a skirmish game (50 to 150 figures on the table); and anything larger defined as a special, one-off big battle or a demo game at a show.

It was a standard-sized game because the bigger games required lots of time and multi-person participation and there weren't that many rule sets aimed at the skirmish side of things: most of the skirmish games I encountered used home-written rules. Role-playing was, well, it was role-playing, and we thought of that as something different (not better, not worse, just different...and I did it that as well, just not as part of my "wargaming" hobby).

Almost by default, therefore, everyone I knew collected and played to the standard-sized game. The guys playing 25mm had a small number of armies, the guys playing 15mm had a large number of armies. Same weight of lead, just in different forms!

Now, however, although those four categories of game (role-playing, skirmish, standard and big) still exist, the ratio of what is played has changed, with the smaller games taking market share from the bigger games...but why?

I suspect that it is down to the vast increase in choice now available to the wargamer. Technology (the Internet, self-publishing etc) has meant that we now have a huge choice of decently-produced rulesets at all sizes of game, and the means to find out and access them easily. The hole in the marketplace for decent and available skirmish games has, effectively, been filled, meaning that the word 'default' no longer applies to standard sized games.

Likewise with figures: the choice and availability is now huge, and across every possible period of conflict. Jenkins' body part is definitely "ear" today!

As a result, I suspect that the number of big games is still what it was, and that they remain a special occasion, but that wargamers now have two default sizes of game: to use my terminology, above, the skirmish and the standard size.

That means that rather than just having "The guys playing 25mm had a small number of armies, the guys playing 15mm had a large number of armies" we now have: "The guys playing 25mm have a small number of standard armies or a larger number of skirmish armies; the guys playing 15mm still have a large number of armies; and there are these new guys who have swapped their 25s and 15s for truly enormous numbers of 6mm figures".

All that matters, of course, is that our hobby remains vibrant and growing. It's a broad church and there's room for everyone.

[carlos marighela]

Except for heretics, non-conformists and er.. Quakers, obviously.

I would further refer you to Articles IX and XX of the Thirty-Nine.

[Ray Rivers]

@Vis Bellica

A well thought out and written post! Bravo!

All that matters, of course, is that our hobby remains vibrant and growing. It's a broad church and there's room for everyone.

Totally agree. In fact, looking back over 50 years I personally think that the hobby has grow enormously because lots of different (once separated) areas of interest (such as role playing, board gaming, etc.) have now become part of a main stream group of people who enjoy playing with miniatures, in what-ever form. You see it here on this forum day in and day out.

Life is full of negatives... but we as a group are best when focusing on the good things. And the diversity of miniatures play is a good thing.

[syrinx0]

Totally agree. In fact, looking back over 50 years I personally think that the hobby has grow enormously...

I would agree as well. I was rather surprised yesterday when a few of the tradesmen I had working at my house stopped when they entered my hobby room (airbrushes, paints, figures on tables in the middle with shelves of figures and books all around) and were appreciative.  They all gamed or knew that their kids played these games.  It was rather fun to discuss gaming and books after not getting out to any conventions this year.

[Harry Faversham]

I well remember one of the Dynamic Dunderheads reaction the first time he took part in a proper big game...

"Fookin' 'ell where do we start here!!!??"

Before this he'd only skirmished, or been in games with half a dozen Battalions a side, 30 Battalions each side kind of stumped him. The other, Veteran Dunderhead, had seen this many times and galloped to his rescue with a splendid...

"Don't tow, soft lad, it's wot we call a target rich environment!"

[Rick F]

I should imagine nearly everyone aspires to gaming on 18ft tables, with exquisitely painted 28mm figures on railway model standard terrain. Then reality kicks in for most

[Yarkshire Gamer]

I should imagine nearly everyone aspires to gaming on 18ft tables, with exquisitely painted 28mm figures on railway model standard terrain. Then reality kicks in for most

And they can either give up or give it a go !