28mm Persian Chariots

[Kyrellification]

Hi,

We are looking to do a large Gaugamela battle.  Anyone know any good 28mm Persian chariots"

We would ideally prefer plastic if possible.

We would convert if we can, any good sources for bits?

[Jjonas]

This will be a challenge. I do not know of any plastic Persian Chariots outside of 1/72nd scale.

As for 28mm, this is also an issue as most kits are older and usually not true 28mm figures, but are slightly smaller, or even larger (although the Vendels now are more of  match for Victrix). There are also true 28mm scythed chariots for Successors- they can be crew swapped easily enough, but they are most expensive.

Large 28mm range:
** Thistle and Rose has restarted the jumbo 28mm scale Vendel range - which had a Persian set and a scythed chariot. I converted mine:
https://ancientbattles.com/Darius/darius_chariot.htm

So in the 25-28mm range:

* 1st Corps has a very nice kit with accurate horses and nice sculpting.
https://1stcorps.co.uk/product/scythed-chariot/

** Old Glory once were the cheapest, with two chariots per bag.
https://www.oldgloryminiatures.com/proddetail.asp?prod=PPP-02

* RAFM used to have a nice true 25mm chariot- but its tiny now.
http://www.rafm.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=RAF&Product_Code=RAF07129&Category_Code=AHP


Of the Successors that can have crew swaps. The problem with these is they all have fully barded horses:

*Relic 28mm Seleucid scythed chariot
https://www.relicminiatures.com/product/seleucid-chariot/

* Polemarch (Gripping Beast) 28mm Seleucid scythed chariot. Neither crewman look Persian.
https://www.grippingbeast.co.uk/SCRC18a_Scythed_Chariot_A--product--3327.html

** Newline Designs 28mm Seleucid scythed chariot
https://newlinedesigns.co.uk/product/seleucid-scythed-chariot/

The ones with (*) are models I have built or occupy the lead pile (**).

As for scratch building- new plastic sets will offer many poses for crews and possible horses- although it seems that Persian chariots did not use saddle blankets.
There are many MDF wheel sets for various wagons that may be of the correct size and scythed can be builts out of bill hooks.

Good luck with this project- I have never even completed my full 5-6 chariots in my collection. Although I have completed some of my older (20 years +) Persian models during these shut down days.

[AdamPHayes]

You might be in luck, Wargames Atlantic and Victrix are both doing Achaemenid Persians in plastic,. One of them might add a chariot to their releases (you could be waiting a while though...) Otherwise just get the metal models, as compared to the rest of the army, they are a small part of the total cost. If you have a horror of metal for other reasons (too heavy?) then I would consider talking to one of the MDF companies who make a load of wagons and other chariots, Warbases maybe? They would be in more of a position to put together a Persian chariot design, particularly if they know they are getting an order for a dozen right off the bat.

[Burnin Coal]

This went up on the Footsore site a couple of weeks ago as a work in progress for future release....so eventually you should be in luck

[Captain Harlock]

Personally I would go the DIY way, its very doable to make the chariot and use some Victrix horses

[Easy E]

Personally I would go the DIY way, its very doable to make the chariot and use some Victrix horses

That was my thought as well.

[Jjonas]

Arrian does not note whether the scythed chariots were quadrigas or not, however earlier he says the Cyrenian gifted chariots were four horsed (quadriga), and his Cyropaedia details the Scythed chariots as having four horses and a wide fortified turret.
I prefer four horse myself to two, and the larger turret described by Xenophon.

CYROPAEDIA
THE EDUCATION OF CYRUS
By Xenophon

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/2085/2085-h/2085-h.htm

(25) So Cyrus spent his days, and meanwhile the deserters from Babylon and the prisoners who were captured all told the same story: they said that the king had gone off to Lydia, taking with him store of gold and silver, and riches and treasures of every kind. (26) The mass of the soldiers were convinced that he was storing his goods away from fear, but Cyrus knew that he must have gone to raise, if possible, an opponent who could face them, and therefore he pushed his preparations forward vigorously, feeling that another battle must be fought. He filled up the Persian cavalry to its full complement, getting the horses partly from the prisoners, partly from his own friends. There were two gifts he would never refuse, horses and good weapons. (27) He also procured chariots, taking them from the enemy or wherever he could find them. The old Trojan type of charioteering, still in use to this day among the Cyrenaeans, he abolished; before his time the Medes, the Syrians, the Arabians, and all Asiatics generally, used their chariots in the same way as the Cyrenaeans do now. (28) The fault of the system to his mind was that the very flower of the army, if the picked men were in the chariots, could only act at long range and so contribute little after all to the victory. Three hundred chariots meant twelve hundred horses and three hundred fighting-men, besides the charioteers, who would naturally be men above the common, in whom the warriors could place confidence: and that meant another three hundred debarred from injuring the enemy in any kind of way. (29) Such was the system he abolished in favour of the war-chariot proper, with strong wheels to resist the shock of collision, and long axles, on the principle that a broad base is the firmer, while the driver's seat was changed into what might be called a turret, stoutly built of timber and reaching up to the elbow, leaving the driver room to manage the horses above the rim. The drivers themselves were all fully armed, only their eyes uncovered. (30) He had iron scythes about two feet long attached to the axles on either side, and others, under the tree, pointing to the ground, for use in a charge. Such was the type of chariot invented by Cyrus, and it is still in use to-day among the subjects of the Great King.


Gaugamela in 331 BC. Diodorus Siculus, seems to indicate trace horses- which would be a quadriga:

53 1: By the time he heard of his arrival, Dareius had already assembled his forces from all directions and made everything ready for battle. He had fashioned swords and lances much longer than his earlier types because it was thought Alexander had had a great advantage in this respect in the battle in Cilicia. He had also constructed two hundred scythe-bearing chariots well designed to astonish and terrify the enemy. From each of these there projected out beyond the trace horses scythes three spans long, attached to the yoke, and presenting their cutting edges to the front. At the axle housings there were two more scythes pointing straight out with their cutting edges turned to the front like the others, but longer and broader. Curved blades were fitted to the ends of these.

https://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Diodorus_Siculus/17C*.html

Gaugamela in 331 BC. Curtius, does not mention horse count:

"From the end of the chariot-pole projected iron-tipped spears, and to the cross-beam on each side they had fixed three sword-blades. Between the wheel-spokes a number of spikes projected outwards, and then scythes were fixed to the wheel-rims, some directed upward and others pointing down to the ground, their purpose being to cut down anything in the way of the galloping horses" (The History of Alexander, IV.9.5).

[Jjonas]

The first images (1-3)are of the Polemarch version which reveals the small cab based on the McBride illustration in Sekunda's Seleucid Armies Montvert (4).
The Relic version has a wider cab suitable for two crew- which is a possible option, and more likely my favored option for Persian Scythed chariots. So if I was constructing my own turrets I would be widening the box so the the horses could have proper spacing. The smaller box seems likely for the scythed chariots of later armies that it was expected the single crewman/driver would bail out before a crash into enemy troops or just random crashes.

That Footsore model looks like it might be a good addition to wait for, but I'm not sold on the two horse scythed chariots, although that might be a good type to have at a skirmish such as at Dascylium (395 BC).

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