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Author Topic: Siege of Oathmark (or any other fantasy battle game)  (Read 5464 times)

Offline BZ

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Re: Siege of Oathmark (or any other fantasy battle game)
« Reply #30 on: November 23, 2020, 11:34:19 AM »
Simplicity and oversimplicity are not the same, and the borderline between them is not exact. For me the joy would be not only the play, the siege himself, but the castle building also. And for that are too simple rules not really enough.

Offline steders

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Re: Siege of Oathmark (or any other fantasy battle game)
« Reply #31 on: November 23, 2020, 12:59:27 PM »
Yes Akky that was in the shed.

For Helms deep I think I just chucked a load of figures on the table. I haven't got the picture from the end of the game where the Rohan relief column led by Gandalf got piked to death and Theoden got twated by a couple of Uruks in the gateway (really REALLY bad dice throwing by the good player).



Offline Mark

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Re: Siege of Oathmark (or any other fantasy battle game)
« Reply #32 on: November 23, 2020, 01:22:26 PM »
If the siege engines have the option to break down wall sections, then on a small castle, you could concentrate fire. So I think, that a small castle has not only benefits.

You are right, but this also means the defender only has one area to defend - still an advantage to the defender I would say.

Having just read through your blog, I think the Warhammer Siege rules cover most of what you are looking for, with the exception of building your castle using point values. It removes rank bonuses for both attacker and defender on the walls, but the wall counts as hard cover against shooting and a defended obstacle against hand to hand combat. Attackers can only attack with one model per ladder and each ladder needs 4 models to carry it without penalty. The defender bonuses last until the attacker wins a round of combat when they can then put as many models on the battlements as they can fit. Siege towers remove the defensive bonus but still only allow a maximum of two models to attack until a combat round is won. Only walls can be assaulted, towers are judged to be too tall for ladders and siege towers.

Walls, towers and gates each have a damage table - there is a target number for destruction which is difficult to reach quickly but lower scores add positive modifiers to benefit future attacks. This works for war machines, battering rams and monsters (and even infantry, but their strength is likely to be too low to damage walls!).

Rocks and boiling oil for the defenders are shooting attacks which can only target next to the wall, but can be used whilst the unit holding them is being assaulted by ladder/siege tower.

Siege towers and battering rams have profiles too so they can be attacked/destroyed by defensive fire.

One thing to consider when developing a siege assault scenario is keeping it playable - Warhammer adds a seventh turn to its usual six for the assault. I haven't played Oathmark but to make a scenario viable it needs to broadly fit into the same sort of timeframe you would usually expect.

Offline Griefbringer

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Re: Siege of Oathmark (or any other fantasy battle game)
« Reply #33 on: November 24, 2020, 07:45:46 PM »
If the siege engines have the option to break down wall sections, then on a small castle, you could concentrate fire. So I think, that a small castle has not only benefits.

Even with a large castle, there are numerous sections where siege engines could concentrate their fire. That said, another issue is whether you want to even play such bombardment - which for historical sieges could take days or weeks. Perhaps such bombardment could be better handled as some sort of a campaign, where the defender could also have some options (counter-bombardment, sorties, sending messenger to bring reinforcements etc.). Once a breach would be achieved by the bombardment the attacker could then launch a proper assault.

As for detailed castle design system, that could be interesting, but are you also planning on building a modular castle system that would have enough pieces to cater for many options? Perhaps it would be best first to think of the actual castle elements (walls, towers, gates, hoardings, moats, drawbridges, portcullis, keeps, stables etc.) and materials (earth, wood, stone, fantasy what-nots) that could likely show before even thinking of point costs for them. Some of these might not make major difference, while some options such as very high walls (cannot be scaled with ladders) or multiple layers of walls (more difficult to bring equipment to bear on the second) might make life much harder for the attacker.

Another issue is the tactical goal of the attacker. Are they just trying to make it past a town wall so that they can start pillaging and burning (in that order) the buildings behind? Or are they assaulting a vital small castle where they need to clean every nook and cranny of the defenders? In the latter case, stout towers and keeps that can provide resistance for extended periods become highly valuable, while in the former case the attacker the attacker can try to ignore them once they have broken through a gate or wall.

Offline BZ

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Re: Siege of Oathmark (or any other fantasy battle game)
« Reply #34 on: November 24, 2020, 09:06:44 PM »
Having just read through your blog, I think the Warhammer Siege rules cover most of what you are looking for, with the exception of building your castle using point values.

One thing to consider when developing a siege assault scenario is keeping it playable - Warhammer adds a seventh turn to its usual six for the assault. I haven't played Oathmark but to make a scenario viable it needs to broadly fit into the same sort of timeframe you would usually expect.
Thanks for Your input! I still think that point values should be important, because that can bring a balanced battle. Just halving the points for the defenders seems to me a way too rough solution... Although I never played Warhammer siege, maybe it works fine.
The only way to make a siege on tabletop not an overextended artillery shootout, is setting a turn limit and so force an attack.

Offline BZ

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    • Oathgrave
Re: Siege of Oathmark (or any other fantasy battle game)
« Reply #35 on: November 24, 2020, 09:23:41 PM »
Even with a large castle, there are numerous sections where siege engines could concentrate their fire. That said, another issue is whether you want to even play such bombardment - which for historical sieges could take days or weeks. Perhaps such bombardment could be better handled as some sort of a campaign, where the defender could also have some options (counter-bombardment, sorties, sending messenger to bring reinforcements etc.). Once a breach would be achieved by the bombardment the attacker could then launch a proper assault.
I don't think that it would be viable to make realistic sieges on the tabletop without being way too long. I think, there has to be a turn limit, which forces an attack, not only an endless waiting, and shooting on both sides.

As for detailed castle design system, that could be interesting, but are you also planning on building a modular castle system that would have enough pieces to cater for many options? Perhaps it would be best first to think of the actual castle elements (walls, towers, gates, hoardings, moats, drawbridges, portcullis, keeps, stables etc.) and materials (earth, wood, stone, fantasy what-nots) that could likely show before even thinking of point costs for them. Some of these might not make major difference, while some options such as very high walls (cannot be scaled with ladders) or multiple layers of walls (more difficult to bring equipment to bear on the second) might make life much harder for the attacker.
I'm not planning, I'm just dreaming :). I would love to build a modular castle, but I'm afraid, I will never have the time for it. At the moment, I would be happy, if I could paint my armies... But back to the castle: I thought about the castle elements. I have some rough ideas, how it could work (You can read it in my blog), but these are only seeds.
I think, more layers of wall would make a too big battle in time, and in space (in 28mm). And as my base for all this is Oathmark, that would not fit (relatively streamlined rank and flank battles in 28mm), so I would let these depth of realism go.

Another issue is the tactical goal of the attacker. Are they just trying to make it past a town wall so that they can start pillaging and burning (in that order) the buildings behind? Or are they assaulting a vital small castle where they need to clean every nook and cranny of the defenders? In the latter case, stout towers and keeps that can provide resistance for extended periods become highly valuable, while in the former case the attacker the attacker can try to ignore them once they have broken through a gate or wall.
Again, turn limit. I would be happy, with a simple siege, with for example the goal of occupying a given percent of wall sections or so. There could be other goals too (for example passing by a castle in a narrow valley, or about a river), but maybe it would be too complex for its importance.

Offline BZ

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    • Oathgrave
Re: Siege of Oathmark (or any other fantasy battle game)
« Reply #36 on: November 25, 2020, 09:28:23 PM »
Im not into AoS, and its pretty long (honestly, I have no time to watch all of it), but its a siege with home made rules (introduced in the first 4 minutes):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEgUMn9PZPs&ab_channel=RerollingOnes

Offline BZ

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    • Oathgrave
Re: Siege of Oathmark (or any other fantasy battle game)
« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2021, 01:13:41 PM »
I started to write detailed rules and stats for castle building and siege for Oathmark. I made it just for fun (I would need a modular castle to test it, which I dont have), but if anyone is interested, I can share it.

 

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