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Author Topic: Warlord games epic battles 12mm acw  (Read 16860 times)

Offline fairoaks024

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Re: Warlord games epic battles 12mm acw
« Reply #45 on: December 27, 2020, 12:40:49 PM »
I got my free sprue, only painted the officer and the cannon so far, but they are lovely models.
Cult of the black goat cultist No.10

Offline Calimero

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Re: Warlord games epic battles 12mm acw
« Reply #46 on: December 27, 2020, 05:39:38 PM »
I reviewed the set in my blog. Full blog here: https://amsterdamwar.game.blog/2020/12/27/epic-acw-is-a-marketing-project-not-a-new-wargame-scale/

"Now Warlord, that bought the Forgotten & Glorious ACW range and recast them as 13,5 plastic..."


 ???
A CANADIAN local hobby store with a small selection of historical wargames miniatures (mainly from Warlords). They also have a great selection of paint and hobby accessories from Vallejo, Army painter, AK Interactive, Green Stuff World and more.; https://www.kingdomtitans.ca/us/

Offline Norm

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Re: Warlord games epic battles 12mm acw
« Reply #47 on: December 28, 2020, 05:13:45 AM »
Fairoaks, thanks for the lovely samples.

Offline delbruck

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Re: Warlord games epic battles 12mm acw
« Reply #48 on: December 28, 2020, 12:55:44 PM »
I like the concept of the 10 figure close order strips, but I am a little lost understanding the logic of Warlord's regimental organization. It appears a regiment is supposed to consist of five stands, each about 60mm's wide. This gives the unit a frontage of 300mm when in line. The normal frontage of a 28mm unit in Black Powder is 200-250mm. This means that the epic scale either requires a larger table or fewer units. A lot of the discussion I have seen implies the epic scale is a solution to the large tables required by 28mm armies, but the opposite seems to be true.

Offline has.been

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Re: Warlord games epic battles 12mm acw
« Reply #49 on: December 28, 2020, 01:18:18 PM »
Some time ago I visited the Army Museum in London (UK).
In a display case was a representation of a company, British
army of the 1660s. They used Dixon figures (Chunky 25mm)
It was about three foot (one meter) wide, but only 2 or 3 figures deep.
Us wargamers don't half mess about with scales & base sizes.
By the way it had over a hundred figures, of which only eight had pikes
& two flags. Compare that with a 'standard' wargaming version:
20 or so figures, 2 flags & 4 to 6 pikemen.
 

Offline Gibby

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Re: Warlord games epic battles 12mm acw
« Reply #50 on: December 28, 2020, 01:47:23 PM »
I like the concept of the 10 figure close order strips, but I am a little lost understanding the logic of Warlord's regimental organization. It appears a regiment is supposed to consist of five stands, each about 60mm's wide. This gives the unit a frontage of 300mm when in line. The normal frontage of a 28mm unit in Black Powder is 200-250mm. This means that the epic scale either requires a larger table or fewer units. A lot of the discussion I have seen implies the epic scale is a solution to the large tables required by 28mm armies, but the opposite seems to be true.

This is what baffles me the most. From what I've seen, this seems to be epic in the sense that there are loads of troops, but with frontages like that, how big are your battles going to be on the average 6x4 table?

Offline Sterling Moose

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Re: Warlord games epic battles 12mm acw
« Reply #51 on: December 28, 2020, 01:54:08 PM »
Quote
I got my free sprue, only painted the officer and the cannon so far, but they are lovely models.

How do they look from 2 feet?
'I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free.'

Offline fairoaks024

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Re: Warlord games epic battles 12mm acw
« Reply #52 on: December 28, 2020, 01:59:32 PM »
Fairoaks, thanks for the lovely samples.
Cheers norm!

@sterling moose, they look excellent at normal wargaming distance, I’ve plonked them on the table and stood back and like them at that distance. Sort of a shame really, as I really d9nt need to start up another scale, but will be doing more of these.

Offline DivisMal

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Re: Warlord games epic battles 12mm acw
« Reply #53 on: December 28, 2020, 08:27:16 PM »
Those samples look excellent! I’m eager now to try it.

@ discussion about table size: the same was true with Games Workshop‘s venture into a similar scale (=Warmaster/10mm). The reason behind both systems is that they are still commercial and therefore the producer hopes to sell many, many models.

Now offering a ruleset where you only ever need one basic set is probably no giving you a good profit, certainly not compared to persuading people to buy thousands of these models to field the battles of the ACW in 1:1.

Nothing is stopping me though from just building smaller units.

Offline Macunaima

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Re: Warlord games epic battles 12mm acw
« Reply #54 on: December 28, 2020, 09:26:12 PM »
Two or three stand units seem to be the way to go here. However, supposedly the game will already BE at half scale, which puzzles me, too, given that the epic regiments actually have a larger footprint than the normal regiments.

Of course, you could say each regiment was a brigade and play at half scale...
« Last Edit: December 28, 2020, 09:27:53 PM by Macunaima »

Offline Radar

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Re: Warlord games epic battles 12mm acw
« Reply #55 on: December 29, 2020, 08:35:37 AM »
Mac - thanks for the podcast link. Unfortunately due to my hearing impairment and the podcast sound quality I gave up after two minutes. Roughly where abouts do they hint at ECW?
I have 1000s of Peter Pig ECW figures so not really interested in the figures, I'm more excited at the possibilities that Warlord will add with 'extras' - in particular buildings.

I must confess that the first time I saw the advert for the starter set I was transported back to the late 70s reading imported US comics (Flintstones I think) and seeing line drawing adverts for foot lockers filled with 1000s of ACW figures all for some ridiculously cheap price.

As for the idea, I think it is pretty good. As a smaller sized figure fan i do wonder, could this be a turning point for the magazines which have been very 28mmcentric for so long?

As for the OP's question - will they venture into Napoleonics? I would be surprised if they do, too many visually different troop types = lots of moulds. With both the ECW and ACW the bulk of figures are going to be the same on both sides. Smaller numbers of more unique figures can then be produced more cost effectively in metal, as with the main Warlord 28mm ranges.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2020, 09:07:04 AM by Radar »
www.keepyourpowderdry.co.uk gaming the British Civil Wars in 15mm, and home of the ECW travelogue - dreadful painting, mediocre prose

Offline Macunaima

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Re: Warlord games epic battles 12mm acw
« Reply #56 on: December 29, 2020, 01:18:43 PM »
I couldn’t really tell you where, Radar. About halfway through, IIRC. The comments are basically these:

1) There will DEFINITELY be new epic lines. This is not a one-off.

2) The head of the epic project is a HUGE ECW fan.

3) ECW has enormous appeal in England.

4) The head of the American project would thus not at all be surprised if ECW was the next line,

And, although it is not mentioned, the ECW, like the ACW, is one of those wars where a BASIC army can be represented on a sprue or two - both sides. They’d definitely need to put out two different sprues — one pike and shot and the other cavalry — but they wouldn’t need more than that to begin with. Specialized units can be resin or metal cast or — if there is enough demand — put into brigade boxes.

Regarding Napoleonics, I think they are in no hurry, but will get there. It’s the mold-making that costs for plastics.

I think their production model may be this:

1) Start small with a war that needs only one sprue for basic gaming. The ACW is perfect for this. See how the line goes.

2) Do the next set with TWO sprues from the profits from the first. ECW would be perfect for this. See how that line goes.

3) - ? New sets with two or three sprues each. War of the Roses was also mentioned and would be a good choice.

X) Napoleonics set in 1813. How many sprues would you REALISTICALLY need for a basic battle? Shako infantry. Shako cavalry. 6 pounder cannons. Officers. Shako skirmishers. MAYBE another kind of generic cavalry — say helmeted dragoons or hussars.

So for Napoleonics we’re talking four different types of sprues in the basic game. If they want to be even simpler, they could do it in two: infantry/artillery and cavalry.

Or they could go to the Penninsula: French infantry, artillery and cavalry on one sprue; British on the other. Portuguese as a quick launch.

The commercial model here seems to be to charge peanuts for the basic game and then soak the completists on the brigade boxes — which will still be competitively priced over metals or resin printing. This is the model they used with Black Seas, which was much more successful than Cruel Seas.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2020, 06:12:54 PM by Macunaima »

Offline Cubs

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Re: Warlord games epic battles 12mm acw
« Reply #57 on: December 29, 2020, 01:35:46 PM »
Unfortunately, past form doesn't bode well for those waiting for Warlord to fully support this. Their previous outings away from Bolt Action after buying up a range suggest they'll bring out the odd set or two, promise future expansions to get people to buy, then ditch it when the money slows. Sounds cynical I know, but it's just what I'd bet on, given what they've done in the past. I hope I'm wrong, for the sake of those who are interested in it.
'Sir John ejaculated explosively, sitting up in his chair.' ... 'The Black Gang'.

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Offline Radar

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Re: Warlord games epic battles 12mm acw
« Reply #58 on: December 29, 2020, 02:06:53 PM »
Thanks for that Mac

Offline robh

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Re: Warlord games epic battles 12mm acw
« Reply #59 on: December 29, 2020, 02:07:07 PM »
........they'll bring out the odd set or two, promise future expansions to get people to buy, then ditch it when the money slows.......

Absolutely.
Warlord will not support this in the long run, the cost of maintaining an extended new release schedule for the inevitable diminishing number of buyers does not fit their sales policy.
Warlord are all about the initial "new shiny" burst of enthusiastic new purchasers; as much as they can get, from as many new buyers as possible, in as short a space of time. Then move on to the next new thing.

 

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