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Author Topic: Large Skirmish Rules recommendation needed.  (Read 8639 times)

Offline racm32

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    • Wyndehurst Productions
Re: Large Skirmish Rules recommendation needed.
« Reply #30 on: January 27, 2021, 04:12:15 AM »
Thank you everyone for lots of good suggestions. I think Enough has been said about the merits of Dragon Rampant and I will keep all the feed back in mind when looking for a rules set.

I do love Frostgrave, does Oathmark have any similarities?

Offline pixelgeek

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  • Posts: 2026
    • Zac's Gaming Blog
Re: Large Skirmish Rules recommendation needed.
« Reply #31 on: January 27, 2021, 04:28:27 AM »
I do love Frostgrave, does Oathmark have any similarities?

Not really. It has a strong narrative element in the campaign system but aside from that its quite distinct from Frostgrave

Offline bobhope

  • Bookworm
  • Posts: 68
Re: Large Skirmish Rules recommendation needed.
« Reply #32 on: January 27, 2021, 10:52:06 AM »
handy timed thread, have snuck in an order for DR and Oathmark- do love a good rulebook

Offline Elk101

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Re: Large Skirmish Rules recommendation needed.
« Reply #33 on: January 27, 2021, 10:53:08 AM »
Right. I thought we were generally quite nice to each other on the Fantasy Board. As the board moderator I don't want arguments over this, it's a discussion on rulesets. I get that it's often easy to take and make comments out of context but I don't really want to see snarky comments and LAFers having a pop at each other. Constructive discussion is fine.

Thank you


Offline Wellington

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 292
Re: Large Skirmish Rules recommendation needed.
« Reply #34 on: January 27, 2021, 11:01:47 AM »
I never tried Dragon Rampart, but we did a few test games with Lion Rampart. I never liked this loss of of dice if the unit is down to half its strenght. I feels wrong to me. I prefer rules were  a loss of a miniature goes proportionally with a loss of combat strength of the unit, but not one single loss of combat strength. The activation mechanismen was ok.

Wirh Warlord we played games with 30 minis up to 100 miniatures on one side. Like with Bolt Action it becomes a litte unbalanced it one side has many small units and the other side only a few large units, baut is not that bad as with Bolt Action.
 
A life without Samurai is possible, but not desirable!

Offline Ogrob

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1841
Re: Large Skirmish Rules recommendation needed.
« Reply #35 on: January 27, 2021, 11:32:37 AM »
Thank you everyone for lots of good suggestions. I think Enough has been said about the merits of Dragon Rampant and I will keep all the feed back in mind when looking for a rules set.

I do love Frostgrave, does Oathmark have any similarities?

Rules are quite different, but there are some similarities in feel and theme. It does the same type of world building, where Joe implies more than explains a setting and leaves you to fill in what you need. There is a solid campaign system (for a mass-battle game) and Joe does a good job of writing scenarios in the expansion books, just like for Frostgrave.

Online Hobgoblin

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  • Posts: 4911
    • Hobgoblinry
Re: Large Skirmish Rules recommendation needed.
« Reply #36 on: January 27, 2021, 11:59:29 AM »
A point about Oathmark that's worth making is that it really isn't a 1:1 game when it comes to figure scale. It pretends to be, but nothing about the rules or the campaign system supports that. I think the tacit figure scale is really something like 1:20 or more. So groups of 'five' men are vulnerable to flank attacks even when not in contact to the front. That's not a criticism of the rules, which I really like; it's just that the game is very much a massed battle game that only really makes sense if you assume that the units represent hundreds of men (orcs, dwarves, whatever) rather than a few handfuls. That holds true for the campaign system, where you have a city raising a few 10s of men for its defence.

That's in marked contrast to Saga and Dragon Rampant, in which a single figure is very much one man - so no flanks or strict formations (Dragon Rampant allows certain units to form shieldwalls if they're not down to half-strength).

I never tried Dragon Rampart, but we did a few test games with Lion Rampart. I never liked this loss of of dice if the unit is down to half its strenght. I feels wrong to me. I prefer rules were  a loss of a miniature goes proportionally with a loss of combat strength of the unit, but not one single loss of combat strength. The activation mechanismen was ok.

The Men Who Would Be Kings tweaks the LR mechanism so that each man contributes a die to the attack rather than the 12/6 format. It's easy to import that to the other systems, so you get a gradual decrease in effectiveness. It does mean more counting, though, but it works well.

I think the rationalisation for LR/DR is that not every man is actually fighting in each clash of troops - whereas in TMWWBK, the whole unit is assumed to be shooting (or bayoneting), so every rifle counts.

Offline Doom Beard 78

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 299
Re: Large Skirmish Rules recommendation needed.
« Reply #37 on: January 27, 2021, 12:06:51 PM »
I was going to suggest that you have a look at The 9th Age

https://the-ninth-age.com/

Its free - but its locked into its own set of army lists, so may not be quite the "agnostic" experience you were after.  The games of it I saw were very much a Warhammer FB experience, so that may or may not float your boat depending on how you feel about Warhammer

« Last Edit: January 27, 2021, 12:10:59 PM by Doom Beard 78 »

Offline pixelgeek

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    • Zac's Gaming Blog
Re: Large Skirmish Rules recommendation needed.
« Reply #38 on: January 27, 2021, 02:27:42 PM »
I think the rationalisation for LR/DR is that not every man is actually fighting in each clash of troops - whereas in TMWWBK, the whole unit is assumed to be shooting (or bayoneting), so every rifle counts.

That would seem to be at odds with assumed scale of those two games though, no?

Offline metalface13

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 227
Re: Large Skirmish Rules recommendation needed.
« Reply #39 on: January 27, 2021, 02:28:58 PM »
Hello all.
While mostly a historical wargamer I have enjoyed deviations into small scale fantasy and sci-fi games. For fantasy that has been mostly D&D, Frostgrave, and Relicblade. I have been getting the itch to start a larger fantasy army that I could match against my Anglo-Saxon or Norman armies. To this end I am working on an alternative history setting where in 1066, instead of passing harmlessly by, Hailey's Comet brakes apart and big paces rain down over the earth. The impacts seriously disrupt the world order and the fragments imbue those that carry them with magical powers. To see this out on the tabletop I am looking for miniature agnostic fantasy skirmish rules. I have played lots of SAGA and have the Myth and Magic version but I don't feel the rules give enough flexibility to army composition and narrative play.

Whichever rules you choose this setting sounds great!

Offline Elk101

  • Moderator
  • Elder God
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  • Posts: 10510
Re: Large Skirmish Rules recommendation needed.
« Reply #40 on: January 27, 2021, 03:01:49 PM »
That would seem to be at odds with assumed scale of those two games though, no?

Different rulesets take different approaches, some more abstract than others. Ultimately it comes down to personal choice and what elements we, as gamers, prefer.

Some people might not like certain rules and it's perfectly ok to say what it is that they don't like about them in a constructive manner. Let's not get into arguments over it though.

Online Hobgoblin

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    • Hobgoblinry
Re: Large Skirmish Rules recommendation needed.
« Reply #41 on: January 27, 2021, 03:02:08 PM »
That would seem to be at odds with assumed scale of those two games though, no?

Not really; it's 1:1, and the melees are brief clashes between two loose bands, so I think the assumption is that not everyone's in a position to deliver a killing or disabling role in each combat. They're not formed up as lines. If a band of Bellicose Foot completely destroys a unit of Light Foot, the guys at the front have probably done most of the killing. It is abstracted somewhat, but the morale rules mean that it seldom looks too odd.

In TMWWBK, the emphasis is on shooting, which I think explains the more granular approach.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2021, 03:33:17 PM by Hobgoblin »

Offline pixelgeek

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  • Posts: 2026
    • Zac's Gaming Blog
Re: Large Skirmish Rules recommendation needed.
« Reply #42 on: January 27, 2021, 03:22:48 PM »
Some people might not like certain rules and it's perfectly ok to say what it is that they don't like about them in a constructive manner. Let's not get into arguments over it though.

I think that the question was asked in a reasonable fashion and was directed to the point that the poster was making about the difference between some of the rules being discussed. Not sure what the problem is?

Offline pixelgeek

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  • Posts: 2026
    • Zac's Gaming Blog
Re: Large Skirmish Rules recommendation needed.
« Reply #43 on: January 27, 2021, 03:35:04 PM »
In TMWWBK, the emphasis is on shooting, which I think explains the more granular approach.

The system as a whole seems to be adjusting based on player feedback. Or at least that is the impression I get. Pikeman's Lament had adjustments to the activation system and now we're seeing changes to the way attack dice are calculated. I don't think that any of the changes aren't things you could slot into the earlier games with any issues.

Offline andyskinner

  • Bookworm
  • Posts: 96
Re: Large Skirmish Rules recommendation needed.
« Reply #44 on: January 27, 2021, 03:42:16 PM »
I use Age of Fantasy, from One Page Rules.  https://onepagerules.com/portfolio/age-of-fantasy/

It is obviously a simplified Age of Sigmar, but I've used it for my Lord of the Rings collection, which I don't use for Middle Earth refights.  The main rules are one page, there is a page of special rules, and each army list is a page, but it really is short enough to not have to look up stuff.  There are longer versions available.  If you are a Patreon supporter, you get access to the point calculator, and can make up your own units.

It isn't perfect, since I like a bit more of the extra kinds of things that some games add with uncertainty and surprises.  (Chain of Command for WW2, Song of Blades & Heroes for smaller skirmish.)  I vary the alternate activation sequence by drawing tokens, for example.  But it lets me play with a lot of figures pretty quickly.

A couple of battle reports of this, and some Grimdark Future (sci-fi game, close to same rules) here:
https://andyshobby.wordpress.com/category/battle-report/

andy

 

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