Army Colors of the Californian Bear Flag Empire?

[Deathwing]

Greetings all.  New member Deathwing here.  I was going to post this on TMP, but I think I will get a better qualitative response here.  Here goes.

I am starting a VSF army based on Emperor Norton I and his Bear Flag Empire.  Do a Google search to learn more about this colorful character.  My basic army will consist of steam contraptions, imperial regulars, cowboy militia, and Chinese martial artists.  I bought some Foundry Franco-Prussian War French to represent his Imperial Guard.  However, I have been agonizing for at least six weeks over what color to make them.  The colors have to be snappy, but look appropriate for the period.  Imagine California Prussians and you get an idea of what I’m looking for.  My basic idea is two or three colors with a bright stripe down the outer pant leg and a simple design on their kepe hats.  All my guys will have epaulettes, so they have to be taken into consideration as well.  Some combos I have thought over are grey pants with a yellow or green stripe and a purple coat, blue pants with an orange stripe and a purple or green top, and tan pants with a purple or blue top.  My thought process is that they should resemble the style of the Union ACW uniforms, since the US will be a major influence and one of its chief enemies!  I am absolutely horrible at picking out colors and I really want to get these guys right.  Does anyone have any recommended color combo alternatives?  I apologize in advance for the misspellings and bad grammar.  Thanks all.

[Operator5]

Emperor Norton I. What a colorful character, when I was in San Franciso in October, we wandered around his usual haunts.

Is he going to war with or ally with his Canadian counterpart?

[revford]

Norton I, Emperor of America and Protector of Mexico wasn't he?

One of my all time favourite loonies, he needs to have at least some yellow/gold on the uniforms in honour of his status as a Discoridian prophet.  Maybe the epaulettes, trouser stripes and sashes?

Purple is quite Imperial but Green does sound better for the jackets.

You need to remember to include a newspaper reporter in his retinue to record his Imperial Decrees.  

[PeteMurray]

Hey Joey,

Unfortunately if you wanted color-fast uniforms up until real recently, you had a choice of blue, gray, or khaki. I vote blue pants ("Major. Levi Strauss, qrtrmstrs to His Imperial Majesty!") with a tan jacket and red epaulettes, stripe, and kepi decorations. It's worth mentioning that California was one of the world's best (most stable) suppliers of red dyes at the time in the form of cochineal. Then you could give the Imperial Lifeguard red overcoats.

As attractive as purple would be, it only occurs naturally in the Med, I think. But nothing is too good for His Imperial Majesty!

Incidentally, I'm painting up some Brigade Victorian Gangers as ne'er do wells and gunfighters...

[Deathwing]

To answer some questions.  

The Emperor has an uneasy truth with the Canadians, but the US is anxious to claim its western neighbor, so there is a lot of friciton there.  Basically, a buddy of mine has the US stuff, so I'm just keeping in time with a good foil.  

As to the Discordiansim aspect, I don't believe Lady Eris ever associated yellow with her saints.  What are you some type of cabbage?   :roll:

You know Pete I think I had decided on khaki pants with purple top with yellow details, but now I kind of like your idea.  I do worry that they'll look to much like the blue dress uniform of the modern marines.  See the fella on the right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:PlateIV_Enlisted_Dress_Uniform.jpg

Do you think the similarity will be weird?  As to victorian civilians, are you trying to tell me something?  Do you want me to do cowboys?  You know I have zombies on the brain.

Joey

[revford]

As to the Discordiansim aspect, I don't believe Lady Eris ever associated yellow with her saints.  What are you some type of cabbage?   :roll:

I just thought that yellow would be a good way to represent gold, rather than having men in shiny metallic trousers.  Actual gold could make marching difficult.

And somewhens I am a cabbage.  

[Howard Whitehouse]

Purple and khaki will just look horrible together. Actually, purple tends to look horrible with all except the quietest shades, like white, grey and black.

Nobody outside India wore khaki until the 1880s, and never as anything other than colonial campaign dress. 19th century military fashion disliked muddy shades.

The Americans are in dark and light blue, so you probably want to contrast with that. Is there a Confederacy still around in this timeline? If not, you could go for grey greatcoats with dark blue breeches and kepis, with coloured epaulettes in branch colours on the French model.

I've got some Crimean era French (frock coats and conical shakoes) that will one day belong to some imaginary army, and I still don't know what the colours will be!   :: H

[Deathwing]

In my world the confederacy has been defeated, but the timeframe is purposely vague otherwise.  My buddy's army is really 1890's, where mine is really 1870's.  No biggie though.  I do worry that the grey overcoats will just remind people too much of the confederacy and they won't look past that.  Having to explain that they aren't southern boys might get a little tiresome.  Of course I could be worried over nothing.  Not that I have ever done that.  :mrgreen:

[Howard Whitehouse]

If they are in old French uniforms (purchased from one  of the many bankrupt post 1870 Paris governments) they could either be in full French kit (possibly with, say, new buttons and badges) or the French grey/blue greatcoats (visibly different from US dark blue) with kepis and breeches in another colour of your choice.

Hell, purple if you want -- H

[PeteMurray]

I'll trust Howard's call on khakis in the time period, and his suggestions for gray or blue overcoats. But I liked my suggestion for blue pants and khaki overcoats. :cry: I had completely forgotten about the USMC dress angle--I would suggest that you're exposed to somewhat more of that than the rest of the population. Besides, it's a cool uniform.

Honestly, the US Army's use of gray went on long before there was a Confederacy. I don't think you'd have to explain it too much. "They're actually Californian Republic Militia" is all you'd have to say.

[Plynkes]

I've been looking at the Wikipedia entry for this chap. I never realised he was a Brit. Hurrah!

The problem with the good colours is that they're all already taken. Paint them red they'll look like Brits, blue and they'll look like Yanks or French, grey and people will think Confederates.

I think yellow has only ever been tried by the Swedes, but it looks horrible.

Why not go for a rainbow approach? Have the same uniforms for the troops but give each unit its own colour. On red, one green, a couple of blue, and some nice white ones, too. That will give them a look like the Mexicans from the John Wayne "Alamo" movie, lots of colours, which is real cool. I think it would be fitting that the army of a madman should express itself in so many different colours.

[revford]

How about brown coats?  The idea of epaulets in branch colours sounds good.

[Westfalia Chris]

Now, there´s a rather funny Lucky Luke adventure, "L´Empereur Smith", which parodies Norton I. (although he and his army come off rather more Napoleon I than III). Unfortunately, Google won´t yield useful pics of the uniforms apart from that one:



The infantry and artillery (my favourite quote, "There´s no law in Texas that forbids a man to possess guns, even cannon") are rather Napofrench in appearance, as well.

[Plynkes]

Cuirassiers! An army such as this must have an honour guard of cuirassiers (Edit: On mules!), in scarlet and green. With ridiculous plumes on the helmet, and a big sculpture of an eagle or something, like those silly Palatine Guardsmen that Emperor Maximillian had.

[warrenpeace]

Based on your description of the uniforms, I would suggest red pants and red kepis with grey coats.  Both the Union and Confederacy were influenced by the uniforms of Emperor Napoleon III's France.  Your Emperor Norton might want to partially imitate Napoleon III while making his own statement with a different color coat.  Red pants were still used by the French until WW1, so it's a viable color for the period.  Also the red pants would be OK with grey coats because that wouldn't look too much like the dull grey and brown uniforms of the Confederacy.  The red pants and Kepis could also be a coordination with the California flag, if your flag looks like the modern California flag.  Colorful hats and other trim could make this a pretty sharp looking army.  Grey coats would contrast with other armies that you might fight.  The particular color scheme I suggest also has roots in the 18th century, being used by some French, Austrian, Spanish, Danish, and Dutch units, without any Kepis of course, and I really like that color scheme on my troops for War of Spanish Succession and Seven Years War.