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Author Topic: When Should I Set my Cold War Gone Hot Project?  (Read 18518 times)

Offline The Worker

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When Should I Set my Cold War Gone Hot Project?
« on: December 23, 2009, 10:22:47 AM »
As the title suggests, I'm thinking about taking the plunge into 20mm moderns.

One of my possible periods is a 'hot' Cold War, and I'm having difficulty picking a period where both sides are at a fairly even balance of power.

I'd rather not play a game where the appearance of an M1 causes all the T-72s to spontaneously blow up, nor one where the Red Army effortlessly steamrollers across the German Plains only to get nuked into the stone age to stop them reaching Dublin.

Alternatively, I could do 1990s Eastern Europe/Central Asia, e.g. the Nagorno-Karabakh affair, or an Imagi-Nations version of the breakup of Yugoslavia.

Thoughts and recommendations, please!

Offline JollyBob

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Re: When Should I Set my Cold War Gone Hot Project?
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2009, 11:02:28 AM »
I don't know much about the respective strengths and weaknesses of the East and West at various times during the Cold War, but I would hazard a guess that the era of the Korean War would have been the last time they were evenly matched as conventional forces before the nuclear race got too silly to allow ground conflict.

After that it seems like you'd be restricted to spies, black ops and third-party wars like in Central America up until the 1990s, when we all became "friends" again.

The only other option for me would be modern stuff, as various bits of the USSR split away and Yugoslavia disintegrated (and as you said yourself).

Of course, if you're not too fussed about keeping it strictly historically accurate, you could do pretty much anything you liked. Maybe there was an attempt to retake Alaska and the Aleutian Islands in the sixties? Think Ice Station Zebra...

Or the Poles decided to stand up against their Communist oppressors, and America supported the revolution, sending equipment and "advisors", like a European Vietnam or how they backed Israel.

Quite frankly, my office is very quiet today and I have nothing better to do than think up dumb ass scenarios for other people's wargames, so don't mind me...  ;)

Offline The Travelling Man

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Re: When Should I Set my Cold War Gone Hot Project?
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2009, 11:04:14 AM »
Eliminate the Abrams overkill by going with UK or West German forces as opposition?  Chieftain is a great looking vehicle and somewhat more evenly matched against all of those T-64s and T-72s ;D  Plus you can field all those cool FV432 variants...  ;)

Offline v_lazy_dragon

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Re: When Should I Set my Cold War Gone Hot Project?
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2009, 11:05:20 AM »
You could always try doing a 'semi-hot' setting along the lines of the Operation:flashpoint series of PC games...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Flashpoint

That way you don't need to worry too much about one side or ther other getting to great a military presence on the battlfield and have some chance of 'fiddling' equipment dates so that certain things (e.g. Abrams) are only of limited availablility?
Xander
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Online AKULA

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Re: When Should I Set my Cold War Gone Hot Project?
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2009, 11:07:02 AM »
Late 1970's, or early 1980's would give you a better mix of forces IMHO.

If not, then go for 2014, rejuvenated Russian forces, after Putin's increased military spend, western forces have pulled back from Germany - could even chuck the Chinese in (have a look at Colonel Stone's new minis!), and fight it as a Sino-Russian war.

 ;)

Offline Plynkes

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Re: When Should I Set my Cold War Gone Hot Project?
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2009, 11:08:33 AM »
1950. Centurions get to play at being Tigers and have fun blowing T-34s to smithereens with impunity.

(Oh, sorry. That sounds a bit like your Abrams scenario above. But then again the Russians had bigger tanks than T-34s around too.)
« Last Edit: December 23, 2009, 11:10:40 AM by Plynkes »
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Offline The Worker

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Re: When Should I Set my Cold War Gone Hot Project?
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2009, 11:28:43 AM »
Despite being a fan of Op: Flash (ah, the 'war stories' I have from that game...), I'd not thought about a semi-hot setting.

Perhaps something along the lines of larger Russian involvement in Serbia/Kosovo in 1999?

I'm also intrigued by the near-future 2014 Sino-Russian war idea, although I suspect that that would be more likely to 'go nuclear' than not due to the vast expanses of open space.

Thinking about it, here are my three options:

1) 1970 - with the US still heavily involved in Vietnam, the Soviet Union decides to sieze the moment and, after a series of staged skirmishes on the East/West German border, "with great reluctance" invades the West to "end cross-border raids directed at our fraternal allies in the DDR". This period gives me Chieftans,  Leopard 1, M-48s, M-60s, T-55s, T-62s and T-64s, decent but not overwhelming kit, and a reasonable game.

2) 1980 - the US puts troops into Afghanistan, having learnt nothing from Vietnam. The Russians respond by invading West and moving more and more troops into Afghanistan. The Chinese rattle their sabres as well. Much more modern kit, but the Abrams Problem is present, although it's not as pronounced as it is today.

3) 1990s - breakup of the CCCP - Nagorno-Karabakh War (1988-94!), Chechen War (1994-96), Imagi-Balkans (1992-95). This has the advantage of providing a wide mix of equipment, diverse forces, and, if I feel like it, Russian peacekeeping forces coming to blows with NATO/UN peacekeepers.

Thoughts?

Offline Col.Stone

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Re: When Should I Set my Cold War Gone Hot Project?
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2009, 11:32:30 AM »
Did someone say cold war? 8)

I think akula is spot on, also remember that the russians have the t80 too, which is a bit more modern and loaded with ERA pretty well protected, also armed with kobra or refleks atgm which should be able to punch holes in an abrams,, don't quote me on that tho hehe ;)

Offline The Worker

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Re: When Should I Set my Cold War Gone Hot Project?
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2009, 11:53:01 AM »
Hrm, there is that (also the RPG-29 which has the proven ability to penentrate Challenger 2 from the front!).

Oh, I don't know...! Help?  o_o

Offline Hauptgefreiter

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Re: When Should I Set my Cold War Gone Hot Project?
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2009, 12:00:02 PM »
You might want to look at Computer Games for inspiration.
I propose this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%26C:_Generals
and this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%26C:_Red_Alert_II
per aspera ad astra

Offline The Worker

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Re: When Should I Set my Cold War Gone Hot Project?
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2009, 12:04:14 PM »
Arrrgh! nooo! Not C&C! I abhor them! Aieeee!

Although you're right, I should - what was that game released not so long ago that had the USSR invading the USA and players could use Tac Nukes?

Offline Col.Stone

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Re: When Should I Set my Cold War Gone Hot Project?
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2009, 01:02:09 PM »
Hrm, there is that (also the RPG-29 which has the proven ability to penentrate Challenger 2 from the front!).
Quote
In 2007, British officials confirmed that an RPG-29 round penetrated the frontal ERA and hull of a Challenger 2 tank during an engagement in al-Amarah, Iraq, wounding a crew member.

I did not know that, "impressive"...

I like the idea for afghanistan, i've balled with that one too, something that grows into a pretty much conventional war using another country as the playing field,
Could have the chinese or Western europe holding nukes hostage, ie, they stay out unless it goes ballistic, but they will strike down on whoever uses nukes, as one power..
it's all fantasy so,, :)



Offline Aaron

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Re: When Should I Set my Cold War Gone Hot Project?
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2009, 01:11:24 PM »
There was a board game based on Tom Clancey's novel "Team Yankee" that was called..."Team Yankee"! I haven't played it in years, but it managed to be a pretty fun and balanced game by sticking to the Soviets hitting the leading recce elements which were slowly reinforced as the scenarios progressed IIRC. If you want to go with the late '80s there is no reason you couldn't do the same.

Offline Hauptgefreiter

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Re: When Should I Set my Cold War Gone Hot Project?
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2009, 01:18:40 PM »
Speaking of Tom Clancy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Storm_Rising
Maybe this gives you an inspiration why the Cold War gets hot

Offline rjandron

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Re: When Should I Set my Cold War Gone Hot Project?
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2009, 01:26:56 PM »
If you want to keep the M1 uberpanzers from dominating the game, put out LOTS of terrain. Germany has villages every couple of kilometres or so, and also has lots of woods and rolling hills. This should allow for ultra-modern battles without the Warsaw Pact losing each and every game.
Historical Wargames - My Historical, Fantasy, Science Fiction, Steampunk, and Pulp Gaming Page.

 

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