Mexican army for both the Texas revolution and Mexican American war

[vampire23]

 :DI was just wondering what people that are interested in these 2 conflicts like your Mexican forces to be made up of.I not sure of my infantry force but I do know I want a lot of lancers.Any suggestions Guys.
Thanks
vampire23

[Dewbakuk]

Perry Napoleonic cavalry? Just give them moustaches

[Dan]

For Lancers you could use Front Rank Garrochistas. At least thats what I'm going to do with the units I'm painting up.

[commissarmoody]

1st Corp has a pretty big range for MEX-AMER war.
http://www.1stcorps.co.uk/online_shop/index.php?cPath=184_185&osCsid=347e55232e8e1f8ea46550e13d9f8c51

[Aaron]

Old Glory has an extensive range. I painted quite a few Mexicans and US troops on a comission a few years ago and they were about average OG sculpts. If I was going to do it for myself I think I'd wait and see what Boot Hill was going to release before making any large purchases.

[Bugsda]

Boot Hill prisidio lancers are the dogs bollox! I'd stick with Boot Hill 

[axabrax]

I have to agree that you want to wait for Boothill. These sculpts blow away anything else that's available on the market right now.

[vampire23]

Hi people,
I will properly have all the miniature companys mention.What I am actually looking for are what type of infantry units are you guys using?mexican milita ,line infantry,light infantry you get the idea.
Lordralph23

[Smokeyrone]

I think you need lots of line infantry, and skirmishers, would work for mostbattles.

Remember, the resrves/militia units, the "Activos",  at the Alamo and such were NOT sombrero clad, generic peasant figures.  They wore regular uniforms. (I see that mistake played out in games all the time)

Also, the elite infantry, like Zapadores, were plain elite infantry.  They were not, as you7 would think, really "sappers/Engineers" and thus wore standard uniforms, not goofy berets and aprons like in the Alamo remake.  Nor did they carry 13th century battle axes. 

  But, then again, lots of sombrero clad peasant figures are a must, to represent some of the Texas forces, partisans who picked up a rifle or rake and fought the invading US in the MAW.

Remember, it's not real Mexico gaming, until you have sombrero clad, white shirted Mexicans running around adobe buildings, I always say.   

[Doc Twilight]

Recently published some rules for the Mexican-American War, and this is a subject near and dear to my heart, but I'll try to keep from blathering. If you have specific questions about units, uniforms, etc, feel free to ask me here, or drop me a line. I'm more than willing to help out all I can.

Anyway...

If you want to build an army for -both- conflicts, you'll have a slight problem, as the doctrine and uniforms of the Mexican Army actually changed fairly significantly between the two conflicts. For example, during the Texan War of Independence, all cavalry were issued Baker Rifles at one point. These were stripped from the cavalry after the end of that conflict, and were used by only a handful of Mexican units during the actual war.

One possible way to use troops for both conflicts would be to put them in their cotton duck fatigue uniforms, which many Mexican units were issued. This would mean off-white tunics and pants with relatively simple decoration (Ie: some featured unit facings, most did not) worn under the standard cross-belts, canteen, etc. Shakos were still black with brass plates (no Shako covers) with the exception of the Regiment de Mexico (also known as the Standing Regiment of Mexico) whose uniform in 1846 included a white Shako with black brim.

You could also model specific units, for example:  the Zapadores wore the same uniform in 1846-48 that they'd worn during the Texan War. And they actually -were- combat engineers. Only the elite company were issued Axes, but they were also issued busbys. This was to mimic the elite combat engineers used by Napoleon. The apron was not white, but dark leather, and it was worn under the uniform tunic.

Many of the so-called "Activos", during the 1846-1848 conflict wore uniforms that were the same color and cut as those worn by the regular army during the Texan War of independence. They were given the same training and equipment. The functional difference was that the Activos were used as garrison troops, and as such were not quite as used to the rigors of march and attack as the standard regular line units. In my BMBL rules for the Mexican War, I classify Activos as "Trained" and Regular troops as "Regulars", meaning that they shoot very similarly, but tend to be a little less willing to "take gas" from the enemy.

The peasant militia you see in a lot of movies would be classed as "Defensarias" or "Inactivos", depending upon the actual document in question. For gaming purposes, they are the same. Peasant infantry, issued what weapons are available, and legally restricted to use in their local district. That is to say that, for example, the Defensarias de Aguascalientes were supposed to stay in and around Aguascalientes. (The same was actually true of the Activos, and in both cases the law was generally followed during the Texan War and totally ignored during the 1846-1848 war with the US).

Inactivos typically would carry a mix of obsolete weapons from the state arsenals and personal collections. Mexican citizens were not permitted at the time to keep arms, except for shotguns and family heirlooms. Grant reports encountering Mexican militia armed with everything from stolen US Springfields, to the standard India Pattern Brown Bess used by the Mexican Army, to 16th century wheel locks, shotguns, braces of flintlock pistols, etc...

The Elite units in the army were typically the Light Infantry and certain select Infantry regiments (the 11th was pretty famous, for example). The Guard units used during the 1846-1848 conflict hadn't been raised yet, however, in the 1830s.

Standard arms for the Regulares and the Activos were India Pattern Brown Bess muskets (a few Tower Pattern Brown Bess muskets were also used, but these were fairly rare). The standard rifle was the Baker rifle. During the Texan War, several cavalry units and some light infantry carried these. During the 1846-1848 conflict, rifles were carried by the Grenadier Guards of the Supreme Power, the Light Infantry, occasionally by the Zapadores (this seems to have varied from battle to battle) and by the Mounted Regiment of Mexico. In addition, there was theoretically a rifle company attached to each Regular regiment from 1846-1848, but this was not universally followed.

In terms of cavalry...

Once again, there were "Regular", "Activo", and "Inactivo" cavalry units.  See above for distinctions.

During the Texan War, a law was passed that only the first company of any cavalry regiment was to be issued with lances. All others carried rifles and/or escopetas (essentially a sawn off musket with lousy accuracy firing a large, brass ball.) By the time of the Mexican War, most of the cavalry regiments had re-adopted the lance, and when given the chance, could use it with great effect.

There were exceptions Mounted Rifle Regiment of Mexico (carried Baker Rifles and swords), the Tulancingo Cuirassiers (wore armor, carried basket hilted sabers), and the Guard Hussars of the Supreme Power (used Hungarian style sabers). The standard firearm for all cavalry (except the Mounted Rifles) was the Escopeta. All were issued with swords - those issued to the Cuirassiers and the Hussars were notably superior, but they were all functional.

The Artillery was generally very well manned, but it was ancient (sometimes badly honeycombed), mounted on a Marlburian era limber system in many cases, and moved by civilian drovers. Tended to be immobile in combat. Doctrine emphasized firing at extreme ranges and use of explosive shells and solid bronze shot. Killed a lot of US and Texan officers.

Finally, it's important to keep in mind Mexican infantry drill and general state of equipment.

Mexico had only a very tiny native arms industry throughout the period, which was focused primarily upon repair of existing weapons. Uniforms were native produced, as was powder. Everything else was purchased as war surplus from Europe (especially Britain and France).

Most of this worked just fine, except for the powder, which was awful. Mexican powder was milled and produced locally, based upon a recipe first used by Cortez(!) It was of a very inferior quality, with a slow burn and poor acceleration properties.  The solution was to double charge the amount normally used in the Brown Bess. However, the Mexicans had been instructed by the British to double charge the Brown Bess -anyway- (standard British tactic of the time) and as a result, the charges used were not only of inferior quality, but about four times larger than they would normally be, which resulted in a massive kick, and greatly affected Mexican accuracy (the rifles don't seem to have suffered from this problem).

There were two suggested fixes for this issue. The first was to deploy them in entrenchments and to instruct the men to aim low, which would improve accuracy somewhat. The second, actually suggested in the Mexican drill manual of the time was to fire the Brown Bess from the hip. You can imagine how much fun that was...

Anyway, I've blathered long enough. But let me know if you've got any other questions, etc.

-Alex

[Smokeyrone]

Well, now THAT's a detailed reply. 

Spot on, Doc.  I was talking about the zapadores at the Alamo, but you are right.

BTW, My grandparents in Mexico   had quite the collection,  a Brown Bess or two, and lots of shotguns, used by various units and inactivos during the War.     (also two revolvers, abandoned by local federales when Pancho Villa rode through the Lomas district when my Grampa was six years old. Grampa waved to him, LOL! 

[sepoy1857]

Well, now THAT's a detailed reply. 

Spot on, Doc.  I was talking about the zapadores at the Alamo, but you are right.

BTW, My grandparents in Mexico   had quite the collection,  a Brown Bess or two, and lots of shotguns, used by various units and inactivos during the War.     (also two revolvers, abandoned by local federales when Pancho Villa rode through the Lomas district when my Grampa was six years old. Grampa waved to him, LOL! 

Excellent family story. Would love to see that arms collection!

[sepoy1857]

Shakos were still black with brass plates (no Shako covers) with the exception of the Regiment de Mexico (also known as the Standing Regiment of Mexico) whose uniform in 1846 included a white Shako with black brim.
-Alex

Hi Alex,
Bought a copy of your rules. They look good - but especially the detailed historical notes. I'm working on some Foundry Defensores at the moment (from their Maximillian Range) Aux. of Celeya and Aux. of Guanajuato for MAW. Will post some pics on this forum when they are finished.

I'm just curious...what's the source for the white shakos for the Fijo de Mexico? I have everything ever printed in English and I have not seen that. Interesting...Also where is that Grant quote about the Defensarios? Good stuff! Thanks.

[Alfrik]

Hmmm didnt see the name of the rule set in question?

[warbeads]

Yes, please publish the rules' name...