"A Very American Civil War" (or something thereabouts) Coming This Year

[Doc Twilight]

Just thought I'd mention this. I did mention it on the ACW2 forum over at yahoogroups, but sort of neglected to mention it here, as it slipped my mind with things like, oh... hospital visits, and such...

At any rate, thanks kindly to the gents behind A Very British Civil War at Solway, Black Army will be doing an American book, along the same rough idea, this year. The book will not be an "American copy" of a BCW, rather, it will be another, hypothetical civil war, based in the same time frame as the BCW (actually beginning a few years before). Black Army will support the book with miniatures and miniature deals (some of our pre-existing stuff will work just fine with it, actually), although you certainly will NOT be required to use our stuff. (I hope you'll consider it, though.) There is, as yet, no officlal ruleset, though we've done test games with T&T and a variant of Brother Against Brother so far. Both have worked very well.

The book will cover the first period of the war, major factions, scenarios, etc. We are gratuitously borrowing the format of the BCW book as much as we can because, quite frankly, the guys at Solway did a bang up job. Can't promise it'll be as good, but we'll sure try.

Our first public scenario for the book will be at Kublacon, 2010, in Burlingame California, using the Triumph and Tragedy rules. It will involve the Ohio River Valley Offensive, where Nationalist forces under George Patton attempted to quickly cut the heart of the Constitutionalist movement by cutting off the Midwest, with the ultimate goal of the capture of the Constitutionalist Capital at St. Louis, Missouri. The plan is to depict one of the battles fought along the Kentucky/Indiana Border, as the Nationalist forces attempt to capture the capital of the supposedly neutral Kentucky Free State and remove one of several obstacles along the way.

Yes, most of this is all very provisional, but I thought I'd let you in on the secret. Comments, questions, thoughts, etc. are most welcome.
We have a couple other "secret projects" in the works, and I think you'll also be pleased with them, but this is definitely the one that's getting the most attention with my plans at the moment.

-Doc

[Smokeyrone]

Interesting.  That sounds very cool.

Real personalities (Patton for example) are just for that   demo  game., or are they  actually in the supplement?


 

[commissarmoody]

So your telling me i need to really get on the ball with my mormans spertest turning Utah into deseret then.

[Doc Twilight]

Interesting.  That sounds very cool.

Real personalities (Patton for example) are just for that   demo  game., or are they  actually in the supplement?

There will be actual personalities where possible. We have to be careful with them. Some historical personalities are fair game - Lindbergh was a Fascist sympathizer, that's an historical fact. But others, particularly Hollywood Icons, are a different kettle of fish, as I told a few other people, while I like the idea of Gable flying with a squadron of Constitutionalist bombers, I don't know we could get away with it, no matter how heroic he looked. That said, proxies aren't out of the question.

-Doc

[Chairface]

Sounds kind of like the background for Crimson Skies.

[HerbyF]

During the inter-war period there was a lot of social unrest going on in the USA. Labor disputes, orginized crime, prohibition, potential regional seperatizm. Factions: Crime gangs, bootleggers, revenuers, cops, government agents, private detectives(pinkertons etc.), labor unions, WWW, KKK, Texas free staters, new confederacy, California and/or southwest seperatists, Northwest seperatists. All in all a lot going on in the USA that could spill over into open conflict and some that did.

 
 

[Arlequín]

Sounds like a fascinating project and I wish you all the best with it. I was thoroughly absorbed into Turtledove's 'America' series of books and it will be good to see an alternate take on this

Proxy characters are the way to go for the most part, especially in the litigious culture we live in today.

[Doc Twilight]

Thanks for the support, everyone. It's what keeps me going.

As a general rough idea, the timeline begins with the assassination attempt on President-Elect FDR in 1933; except that, in my version, it actually succeeds. The country had a tendency toward panic at that time (some could argue it still does, but that is neither here nor there), reactionary events follow, and thus the split.

Thus far, there are two "main" factions forming - the Nationalists, and the Constitutionalists. They contain elements of all three major American political parties of the time (The Democrats, Republicans, and Socialists), and are split more along ideological, regional, and class bases rather than simple party lines. In other words - not all Democrats are necessary aligning themselves with the Constitutionalists, and a fair amount of Republicans find the Nationalist cause less than appealing. 

In addition, there are are several smaller factions popping up. The most developed of these is the Kentucky Free State, an Anarcho-Socialist Commonwealth which is trying desperately to stay neutral. We've also got Nativists, Black Nativists, Native American movements, Communists, and all sorts of interesting bits coming in, which we're working on developing further. My wife is working on a very interesting take on the Silver Shirts, and their role in the newly forming American Nationalist Party. The Musketeer BUF work beautifully for this. I'm hoping to have some  "Lindbergh Youth" in our own range, eventually, with other interesting surprises.

As with VBCW, the early years of the war are about consolidation rather than massive regional blocks aligning one way or another - though that will come, in time. The US Army of the age, as many of you know, was tiny, so that plays an interesting, and complicating factor.

At any rate, I'll keep you all informed. And please, feel free to keep the questions and/or discussion going. I'll tell you what I can, keeping in mind that some things must be kept quiet until we have a release date.

-Alex

[leadfool]

Doc,
Sounds great.  Too early to sign up for the game at Kublacon?

You might also look at "Great War" as a set of rules to use.

Among other factions to consider are the Klu klux klan, which had over a million members in 1922 and then fell apart after the Indiana scandel.  It would not be hard to imagine the group reforming to sizeable numbers.

The Socialists could come in both Urban and Rural types, and be seperate but overlaping with both Urban and Rural Labor Unions. 

There could be a split between the various National guard units, which were still supposed to be loyal to the various Governors and the Army and or Marine Corp, which could have their own loyalties.

The FBI was still in its early stages and so there was no single unified Law enforcement front.  You could have groups like the Texas Rangers linked to a political faction.  Which might be opposed to a group like the Secret service or the Pinkertons.  Many States and some cities had anti communist police organizations.  There was a lot of overlapping jurisdiction.  California for example had both the Department of Justice special agents reporting to the Attorney General (still do) and the State Police which reported to the Governor, as well as the Highway Patrol. 

In terms of Gangsters, there are both the Urban organized crime Factions (Al Capone, the 5 New York familes, the Purple gang of Detroit, etc.), and the more Rural Motor Bandits (John, Dillinger, Bonnie and Clyde, etc.)  The latter were never a large number in any one place, but if they could have organize around a political idea, then they might have been a real force.  They could certainly have ties to Moonshiners and the like.

By the way there is much thought that the real target of the assignination attempt on FDR, was the Mayor of Chicago, who in fact was killed.  Two of Al Capones henchman, were in the crowd when the shots were fired.  Most evidence points to the shooter (who's name escapes me) only firing 3 times and yet 6 shots were reported.

All in ALL a great idea, I am really looking forward to it. 

[carlos marighela]

There will be actual personalities where possible. We have to be careful with them. Some historical personalities are fair game - Lindbergh was a Fascist sympathizer, that's an historical fact. But others, particularly Hollywood Icons, are a different kettle of fish, as I told a few other people, while I like the idea of Gable flying with a squadron of Constitutionalist bombers, I don't know we could get away with it, no matter how heroic he looked. That said, proxies aren't out of the question.

-Doc

Allegedly Clark Gable suffered from halitosis. Consider employing it as a primitive death ray.

[Red Orc]

...

Proxy characters are the way to go for the most part, especially in the litigious culture we live in today.

Strangely this may be more of a problem in Britain - our libel laws are pretty arcane and *I've been told* (so, allegedly) that the families of certain people around in the '30s will sue you to the hilt if you suggest that their uncles/grandfathers had fascist sympathies.

But I agree, proxy characters, yum. In my own developing take on VBCW, I won't even be using Mosely and the BUF. My reasoning is that Yorkshire and Lancashire will go their own way - "Union? Southern. British League of Fascists!" and the League, led by a Yorkshire butcher (like, a proper trader in cut meat) called Marmaduke Arkwright, will take the place of the BUF.

Still, sounds like a very interesting project Doc, I wish you every success, and look forward to reading more about how it develops!

[Hammers]

There will be actual personalities where possible. We have to be careful with them. Some historical personalities are fair game - Lindbergh was a Fascist sympathizer, that's an historical fact. But others, particularly Hollywood Icons, are a different kettle of fish, as I told a few other people, while I like the idea of Gable flying with a squadron of Constitutionalist bombers, I don't know we could get away with it, no matter how heroic he looked. That said, proxies aren't out of the question.

-Doc

If you have not read Philip Roth's 'The Plot Against America' is a very good source for a somewhat realistic American civil war in the 1930:s.

[Blackwolf]

Great idea Doc.I can foresee a Woodie Guthrie figure............

[Doc Twilight]

First, before I comment, a dear friend has informed me that I should get my facts right. I seem to have made a guffaw that I -always- get annoyed about when I hear it from my students, and others. Lindbergh, was in fact, a National Socialist sympathizer, not just a Fascist sympathizer (he was, in fact both). Different political movements sprouting from the same tree. (And believe me, if the choice had to be made, you'd much rather have to live under a Fascist).

Leadfool - Too early for Kublacon signup, I believe, but we are trying to have eight player slots. Should be interesting. The assassin you're thinking of is Giuseppe Zangara. I'll also look at Great War, certainly. Might be useful for the larger fights.

Red Orc - You've got an interesting point. The fellows with the VBCW books are having to tread on thin water there, when dealing with historical personalities, and urged me to be very careful, which I shall endeavor to do. In the Untied States, there is a little more leeway if a personality is a recognized public figure, no matter how well connected. Thus the reason that claims can be made for example about JFK having multiple affairs, and the Kennedy's can't do much about it.

Hammers - I'll have a look!

Greywolf - Never say never;) You can, at least, expect a Harry Truman in his WW1 uniform from us, at some point.

-Doc

[Red Orc]

...

Red Orc - You've got an interesting point. The fellows with the VBCW books are having to tread on thin water there, when dealing with historical personalities, and urged me to be very careful, which I shall endeavor to do. In the Untied States, there is a little more leeway if a personality is a recognized public figure, no matter how well connected. Thus the reason that claims can be made for example about JFK having multiple affairs, and the Kennedy's can't do much about it.
...

I think there's two things in your favour here - American has more liberal freedom of information laws than the UK, so there's a lot of stuff that's a matter of public record and once the genie's out of the bottle it's hard to stuff it back in again.

Secondly, we have some of the stupidest libel laws on the planet. If I named the families of those who would sue if acusations about Nazi-sympathising grandfathers came out, then, if the 'alleged libel' were accessable in the UK (eg, if someone in the UK could read the content of the accusations over the internet) then I could be sued, even though the alleged libel was actually published in Germany (because that's where LAF is hosted). What's more, Prof Wicheimer could also be sued, at which point, he would have to prove that the accusations I made were true.

In other words; if I said the Old Albert Scoggins of Scumborough on Sea, the famous All-England Champion Batter-Pudding Hurler, had been a Nazi sympathiser, his grandchildren could threaten the Prof with a libel trial; if the Prof calculated he couldn't afford to defend the claim at the High Court, he'd have to settle, which could include shutting down the LAF.

Lots of companies and sometimes families use the libel laws to stifle criticism here all the time. I'm probably not allowed to tell you who. Journalists frequently fall foul of this, luckily newspapers tend to have a lot of money. But bloggers and forums don't, so they're being threatened all the time. Bah! Humbug! Stupid British libel laws and government secrecy!