War of the Ring and Lord of the Rings

[P_Clapham]

The topic of WotR the LotR rule sets came up in the WHFB 8 thread.  I felt these two games deserved their own discussion.  One on the differences between them, and what you like or dislike about the two games.

[P_Clapham]

Here's a little bit of my history with the games.

I've been a Warhammer and 40K player since '98.  When the first Lord of the Rings rules came out, it coincided with my quitting both Fantasy and 40K.  I had become frustrated at the rule sets and the way combat was handled.  For my taste it was too complex and random.  Rolling to hit, wound, armor save and ward save were too many dice rolls to take out one man (or goblin).  After a particularly bad series of Mordheim games I quit in disgust.

Out of curiosity I picked up the first box set and was impressed by the rules changes.

LotR has the similar mechanic of using a D6 to determine who wins a fight.  However instead of using a chart to compare fight values, you simple add the D6 roll to the models Fight value characteristic.  Wounding is pretty much done the same as Warhammer, you compare the strength of the attack vrs the losing models defense.  The big change here is that armor adds to the models defense. 

This was the improvement that caused me to pick up the game.  Two rolls, one to determine the winner in a given combat, and one to see if the victor is able to kill his opponent.

[bc99]

I love the strategy battle game. It's one of the best skirmish systems I've played. Using formations (not just blocking up your minis and getting artificial multiplies), telling the story, M/W/F, great system.

It bogs down for huge fights, but it's still fun.

[Hammers]

I am inclined to agree. Great skirmish system, the simultaneous action system works very well.

I've never played or even read the WotR rule set simply because it is so ridiculously expensive.

[Dr. The Viking]

I agree. Great skirmish system, the simultaneous action system works very well.

I've read but never played the WotR rule set simply because it is so ridiculously expensive.

I think 6mm or 10mm would be a better scale for that kind of gaming. After all the game is build from 8 man "elements" with 8 wounds... no reason to use 28mm.

[Hammers]

I agree. Great skirmish system, the simultaneous action system works very well.

I've read but never played the WotR rule set simply because it is so ridiculously expensive.

I think 6mm or 10mm would be a better scale for that kind of gaming. After all the game is build from 8 man "elements" with 8 wounds... no reason to use 28mm.

6mm is liike playing with stuffed ants. No fun.

[Dr. The Viking]

6mm is liike playing with stuffed ants. No fun.

No it's not.

[P_Clapham]

I am considering using 20mm or 15mm for War of the Ring.  There are some awfully nice 10mm Lord of the Rings on the Copplestone Castings site.

[P_Clapham]

I do like the War of the Ring rules.  It's just the matter of the sheer number of miniatures involved.  Buying the army by the unit seems like a good innovation for mass battles.  I can see where folks would get turned off, that previously mentioned sheer number of miniatures.  I've been collecting LotR from the first release, so I've got a nice back log of Forces of Evil to paint.  For someone just starting out, yeah I'd recommend going with a smaller scale.  Say 10mm or 15mm.

I'm currently working on a Angmar warband.  Heavy on the Ghostly legions, with the Carn Dum Warband subbing in for the Morannon Orcs.  Got a nice collection of undead warriors painted up at this point.   

[Centaur_Seducer]

I am inclined to agree. Great skirmish system, the simultaneous action system works very well.

I've never played or even read the WotR rule set simply because it is so ridiculously expensive.

Is it really that expensive (remember, I'm a GW hobbyist, so I have a rather strange view of prices)?
There's a lot of plastic minis nowadays

[Christian]

However instead of using a chart to compare fight values, you simple add the D6 roll to the models Fight value characteristic.

Just to clarify: You roll the dice and compare the scores. The one with highest fight vaule wins in the event of a tie. This means that even a weakling has a chance of hitting a legendary hero. Wounding is a different matter though  

Games can be relatively small with either of the systems. I don't think prices are totally off the richter scale or anything, but you can get away with a pretty small army and still have a great game. I don;t collect anything specific but I have playedit a few times with borrowed armies

[Argonor]

If I'm going to play WotR (and i have both the core rules and the recent expansion), I'm definitely going to do so in 10 mm.

I don't like the magic rules for WotR - even the SBG has too many spellcasters for my likings, given it is supposed to represent Middle-earth, where really only immortal beings hold any real power.

I like the SBG, but I think that the opposed dg combat roll is a little bit too random. Difference in fight values only matter when you roll a tie, so an F7 character does not have a better chance of beating an F2 Goblin, than an F3 average warrior...

As may have been understood from the above, I have not played WotR, only read through the rules, that seem OK to me (other than the magic issue) - and I feel more and more inclined to go down the 10 mm route for it (as the armies can then be used for Warmaster, Song of Armies and Hordes, and Kallistra's own system, should I so desire...).

[sukhe_bator]

At the risk of sounding repetitive I'd try 'Armies of Arcana', worth a punt at £20. It has simple D6 combat resolution and caters from Skirmish level up to big battles. And no I don't have a vested interest or shares in the company. I just enjoy the system immensely and it has been the answer to my prayers. For donkey's years I've wanted to wargame Lord of The Rings inspired battles. You can imagine my joy when first the films came out and then the film-based minis came on the scene. But alas, I was soon wailing and gnashing my teeth when the 'epic' battles from the book were turned into what looked like a historical reenactment with one man and his dog on the table. If you like the LOTR theme and the simplicity of the gaming mechanisms but want loadsa orcssss, then give AoA a whirl. The game designer Thane Morgan even developed a LOTR variant for the Tolkein purists. 

[rob_alderman]

6mm is liike playing with stuffed ants. No fun.

That sounds like fun.

I love Epic, great game.

As for WOTR, I dunno, but LOTR is okay. It's a bit too simple for my liking.

[Argonor]

At the risk of sounding repetitive

You do... 

But a good ruleset is always worth mentioning