Any Submarine naval wargames???!!!

[soulman]

I did start some rules a few years back, just got the basic ideas down on word...

Subs at two speeds - slow and attack, each gave you a distance you  can move in inches like most space games, but attack speed was more noisey and so you was a little easier to hit..

Each sub can a stealth rating, which was a D6 number, thhis went up or down depending on your speed and did you fire any weapons in this turn and the depth, shallow, deep or bottom

So the effects of you Stealth rating was your basic stealth + movement - firing and depth.

So even that you could see the subs on the tabletop, you see had to "Ping" it to be allowed to shoot, with torps or lasers etc... so a game of cat and mouse and triyng to get into a firing postion and ping...

Hope thats a nice little read, its a word file and is only rough ideas..
Thanks

[The_Beast]

@Soulman
Re: Movies w/ Subs
While you get a few exterior shots, usually of a depth charge going off, mostly it's all folk gathering around a sonar screen. You just don't get to look out much, even a periscope gives you damn little view. That said, my favorite are Enemy Below (Up for an oscar, shut out by Bridge over the River Kwai), Hunt for Red October, Das Boot, Run Silent/Run Deep, Wing Commander...

Oh, my bad; it's just that so many space movies run like sub battles, and that scene where the Kilrathi are bombing the planet looking for the Tiger's Claw... 

Re: Your description of your rule set
I have to admit, I've bought games that had about as much info.  To think, you just gave it away.

(Insert comment about someone like me born every minute; Malamute understands...)

If you find/remember more details, they'd be appreciated, though you've actually given enough to take my own stab at it.

Thanks!

@all
Oh, and the Mage Knight fig I was trying to remember WASN'T a golem, it was an Iron Lung. Apparently, I'm hardly the first to think of these as ocean bottom warriors. The tridents with points would be electro-spears, while a couple of IL's would lose the points, and have to carry the litter of an explosive charge to fix to the hull of the warship at dock.

Doug

[soulman]

Hi beast and thanks for the reply, i`m just about to watch the 4 parts of submarine 6 today and i have blue submarine for another time, i also have all of seaquest, the later parts had more sub combat in them..

I have been writing notes today looking at my old notes and i  think i will have a go at writing them out, unlike space combat games which are ten a penny, future sub combat is a big zero...

My only thoughts are Damage, i don`t want it like full thrust with many many hit points, i was thinking 4 hit points max before a sub is sunk, maybe Torps do 1D6 damage, or a fixed number
IE/ Lasers 1 point
Mini torp 1 or 2 points
Torps or mines 3 to 4
And alittle critical damage table
Things like
-  1/2 speed
Weapons not working
Taking on water sink i level
Bridge hit, all hands must escape

And since unlike the many dice rolled in space combat, i think i go from a D6 to A D10

[soulman]

The other damage system i  had in mind and use it for some space combat rules i have made is the following

Two numbers, the first one is taking damage and the second is sub sunk ie /

Big submarine   To damage 5+  To sink 8+  Hits 4

So any weapons rolls a D10 and if you damage a sub then you do damage points based on the weapon, but a sub sunk is a lost sub.. so

Lasers  D10-1   1 point damage
Torps   D10+2   3 points damage

So the large sub can take 4 laser hits in damage or 2 Torp hit or could be sunk on any hit
Also each hit is a roll on the critical table maybe

[Commander Roj]

I've been thinking about sub games for a while. I think you need to include drones, and/or fake contacts (blinds). The trick could be deploy a number of drones and your sub model(s). But you record on a play sheet which of the models (drone or sub) is actually which. So you have your models on the table for aesthetics, but they might or might not be what they appear to be.

I also think it might be nice to have sub load out as well. In a scenario a sub might have 10 munitions cells and be equipped with a combination of AUVs (decoys and drones) anti ship weapons, anti sub weapons, strategic weapons even anti-air (swat those pesky ASW VTOLs!) 

[warrenss2]

All these rule ideas sound great. I'd like to see some good anti-sub-warfare tactics available in a game. torpedo decoys, hi-speed turns making a "knuckle" in the water to lure torpedoes, both active and passive sonars, stealth-drives, etc.

Can anyone recommend some good sci-fi sub/undersea books? I liked 20000 Leagues, by Verne, The Undersea Trilogy, by authors Frederik Pohl and Jack Williamson, The Deep Range, by Arthur C. Clarke.

What others am I missing that you guys know about?

[The_Beast]

@soulman
Thanks again! Been taking some work-related classes which have left me chatting like heck, but with little thought to add. Will definitely revisit your ideas shortly.

@warrenss2
Frank Herbert's Dragon in the Sea/Under Pressure (had to look up the title(s)) had a weird take on clandestine undersea resource raiding.

Doug

[soulman]

Hi warren and beast, my mind has been racing and my ideas are down on paper as we speak, i think  around 2-3 hours of think time over the last 4-5 days i got me where i`m happy..

Movement system taken from "calls to arms" simple space combet movment rules, mixed with a damage system taken from the "Evo" system from mongoose with my own ideas and its all coming together..

Check list

1. Movement -  two speeds and 3 levels of depth -  ideas down
2.Submarine stats - ideas down
3.Combat - ideas down
4.Critical hit table - ideas down
5.Sonar - ideas down
6.Weapons stats - ideas down
7.Semi hidden movement -  ideas down tonight
8.Decoys / counter measures - think about it in bed tonight

I will at the weekend place these down on a word file and place it in my new yahoo group, so you can read and see if it looks like something that may work.

[warrenss2]

Don't forget to add the beasties of the sea.

[Commander Roj]

Any developments?

[soulman]

Hello guys and thanks for asking about my rules idea, nice to see some nice people open to new ideas and wanting to know more..

WELL..

I`m have been rushing to paint up my space hulk game which i had on my self since sept last year, and marines nearly painted and aliens next, i`m rushing to get it done so when my friend pops over next week we can play all painted etc..

SO THE SUB RULES..

Since we started this topic, i have watched the following
Blue sub 6
The over one, about the old jap sub..?
Crisom tide
Hunt for the red october.

Now i have seen thos films and looking at the rules i had laid out before them, i see the direction i`m going in and i like what i have done, now all i need to do it type them up and place them in my new yahoo group, which i will place all my other rules idea and projects,  i will also place my space combat rules, which is ready to play, just need to design a few ships and weapons and play.. and beat full thrust..!!!  and my new gladiator rules i have also started to build., if you give me a few days i can place my sub rules in the group and let you know and you can play around with the ideas and see if they will work

[soulman]

My only worry was when playing this type of game, its about targeting the enemy sub, with your forward or rear tops and firing and getting a hit, which should kill with one shot, and even that your submarine is on the table, others will be trying to target you to get a lock and fire.

But with space battle rules, its all about loads of dice and lots of hit points, these rules are for my our pleasure, but would space combat players play a deadly sub battle type game.

But having a submarine and not getting killed with s single hit, must be more fun then 100 hitpoint crusiers...?

[warrenss2]

From what I understand modern day torps exit their tubes and cruise at 40 knots. They are wire guided from the submarine to the point where they are then "activated". At that point the torp accelerates to about 60 knots, starts to try to acquire a target, the the guide wire is broken. 60 knots is far faster than any sub I know of. The fastest sub in the world in the Russian Alpha class... about 42 knots. If the torp loses the lock on an acquired target, it will circle either to the port or starboard until it reacquires a target (this could be the firer it's self).

For sub speeds I recommend 3 speeds.
Slow - the sub is creeping along super quiet, this speed makes it hardest to be detected while making their passive sonars perform at peak efficiency.
Cruising - this is the normal everyday speed of the sub. You still have a good chance to avoid detection.
Flank Speed - at this speed you have just unzipped your fly! Any ships or subs in the area know you are there. Your props are tearing through the water causing a loud blast of audible bubbles. If your towed sonar array is still out (this helps passive sonar) you are going to cut it up bad.

[soulman]

Just to let people know i`m working hard for you today to get all my ideas out of my head and pieces of not paper down onto a word file, this will be placed in my Yahoo group for people to read..

Please know i`m not skilled in knowledge on submarine combat or weapons, only what i have seen in films and japenese cartoons, but i want to get the framework down, and then people can see where i`m trying to go and if you think the rules are right, then please help me make them work...
Back to work..!!!

[soulman]

Well i have done it, 2 hours of computer work and i got my ideas off bits of paper and out of my head and onto the computer and the internet..!!!

Go to my yahoo group at  -

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/alanshobbybox/

In my files section you have the following

Submarine combat rules -  basic ideas and rules

Space combat rules -  sitting on my hardrive for 2 years now, its time to show the world my space combat rules

I must say my space combat rules are my joy, and a shame not in print, i feel it have the flow and feelings of all the space battles you seen on manga or films... Over to you