Unusual uniform in Red army

[area23]

Great photos!

[sepoy1857]

How's this? Translated with Google Chrome Browser.

The Red Army in the hussar-Uhlan-dragoon form. 1

Oct. 3rd, 2010 at 11:23 PM
So. I already had a post on this subject - I put it in my photos are available on this topic. Now I'll put in a little amateur self written an article on this topic with a list of parts and schools, wearing a form. In the end, I backed up with quotations from the memoirs of exposition regarding some kraskomov wearing all kinds of items hussar form.
The work is composed materials VIFa. Everyone who posted on this forum the information referred to is impossible, but special thanks must be said by the distinguished Chinese (AV Cullen).
Unfortunately, due to the volume had to split the article into two parts.
So, part 1.

Red Hussars
As surprising as it may sound to some, but the Red Army and served as the hussars. And as it turned out they were not so little. Here, however, should make one clarification: hussars such troops can be called conditionally, since often they were part of an old hussar wore form.
       During the Civil War served as the Reds set internationalists virtually all nations: Latvians, Poles, Finns, Estonians, Chinese, Koreans, Romanians, French, Italians, Persians (working Donbass), Turks, Bulgarians and Afghans. In short, everything: from the Indians to the Norwegians. Most were former prisoners of the Triple Alliance: Germans, Austrians, Czechs, Yugoslavs. Especially there were many Hungarians, who were then often called "Magyars".
       In 1918, the Reds captured Kiev depots remaining after the occupation of the Ukraine outfit the 1 st Austrian Hussars. After this, in June 1919 an internationalist Istvan Horvath - sergeant 1 Hussars, a former lathe operator from Győr - was formed by a separate International Cavalry Division. It consisted of four squadrons: three of the Hungarians, and the fourth, destined for exploration - from the Russian and Ukrainian. This squadron was sent to the internationalists of Poltava on the orders of Podvois'kogo. The division had two light batteries, signal and combat engineer units, machine-gun platoon of eight "Maksimov" with cart, but experienced a terrible shortage of horses, although it was full - more than a hundred - the rest of the Austrians saddles with sets of harness. So, with saddles on their backs, the men and walked until it was requisitioned 180 horses. And the horses were taken hussars literally on the way to the front of ... Kiev cabs, and mocked "dismounted hussars. Soon, from other parts were formed another 4 squadron. Eighth consisted of Germans and Austrians recruited by a former Austrian officer Franz Morgauera. Later the battalion entered the 1 st International Brigade.
Uman, it has been deployed in the 1 st international Cavalry Regiment in the 12-th army. Throughout the year, the regiment had to war under Zhmerynka, Proskurov, Kiev, Fastov on Nezhinschine and Chernihiv. In November 1919, the regiment sent to Kazan, and in January 1920, disbanded. The majority of Hungarians, like many internationalists, left back home by agreement with the Hungarian government.
Uniforms regiment was unique. Hungarian arms and form mixed with the Russian outfit. Cavalrymen wore caps with the old Hungarian Russian tunics, coats and boots. In the Hungarian squad were red Hungarian chikchiry, and the rest - Russian khaki trousers. Cavalry and artillery were Hungarian boots, and the infantry - Russian hats and boots with the windings. All cavalry squadrons were hussar red caps, caps, obtained thousands of warehouses. They were even the Russian-Ukrainian cavalry, only in the exploration wearing a cap. For these caps enemies nicknamed hussar "red devils". 
On the banner of the 1 st battalion commander who was Matthias Dyuritsa, Hussars wrote: "Soldiers Revolution" banner on the 2 nd Detachment Ishtavana Novak - "Soldiers of the Hungarian Soviet Republic." "Red Hussars" Garashin Rudolph wrote in his memoirs:
"Many of the soldiers wore a uniform in which they were captured, except that the top Russian wore the cloak. Weapons have been enough, but a variety of systems: the trophy "manlihery, Japanese rifles and a single-Russian rifle, pistol, though not enough. Some people have been pyatizaryadnye "smitvetsony. Nagano, produced by the Tula plant, we got later. "
There were other hussars-Hungarians. Thus, from Hungarian hussar, was third kavdivizion 45-th division Yakir, formed in April 1919 in Odessa. He was born on 15 th kavdivizion 3rd Brigade 5-th Ukrainian Soviet division. Its founder and leader was a former army captain, Lieutenant-UNR Chmielewski. Wore a division, as well as "red devils", maroon and red chikchiry Lancers caps.
Enough, however, and Russian hussar.
For example, there have Blucher 1 st Peter's Regiment "Red Hussars" S. Fandeeva elapsed from Vyatka to r.Iset. Accordingly, the regiment wore red hussar's cap. he was a member of the 30 th Infantry Division, then from it to Vyatka was created 55 th Regiment of the 10 th Cavalry Division. 55 th kavpolk was formed April 1, 1919 in Glazov from a separate kavdiviziona and Krasnogusarskogo Fandeeva squad. Detachment, in turn, was formed at Narva in the 17 th Hussars Chernigov Regiment on Nov. 7, 1917, that is, a contemporary of the October Revolution! Until May 1918 he fought under the Tuapse, then on the Eastern Front, after the date of Perm backed in Vyatka, where he reformed, giving two squadrons. Polk acted in the equestrian team Tomina 3rd Army (when taking Kamyshlov red hussars broke black hussar battalion, especially distinguished squadrons of hussars, commanded by Alexander Gorsky and G. Petrova), 10 th Cavalry Division 3rd Army ( 1 st Roar. Army of Labour), 10 th Cavalry Division 3rd Corps Guy Zapfronta in the composition of which has passed the German border and was interned. Tom was preceded by heated battles, when red horsemen tried to break through to his comrades. kavpolka Commissioner Steel, who fought side by side with the hussars, wrote in his diary during the heated battles with the White Poles: "hussar cap blush for the shaft, their swords shine like lightning in the air, the crackle of machine guns occasionally gives way to bursts, and we rush forward to where the entrance to the Warsaw-Plock.
So what were the red hussars?
On the eastern front there was the 1 st Orenburg kavpolk created based on the 5 th Alexandria Hussar Regiment of black death, when several "black" hussars were "red." He was first organized in late 1917 as the 4 th Red Guard units (or regiment) of 550 sabers. The commander was a former senior non-commissioned officer Ivanov, assistant - art. Ushakov, Lieutenant (later Divisional Commander). Unit, cavalry augmented 5 th Division, was sent under the Cherepovets, where up to March 1918, he fought with local gangs.
Flared when one of the first centers of counter-revolution - dutovskoe Cossacks - Hussars sent by Orenburg. On the road team drove to Moscow, where he received a full hussar form and new weapons, and then went further. On their way they met the rebels out of place Czechs, but they missed the Red, as not adopted them for the Red Army, as he wrote Maj. Gen. Kryuchenkin, "we were all in the form of a hussar, though without the royal insignia".
Approaching the city for twelve miles, Hussars met local residents. Those treated with hostility detachment. Red Guards had to exchange delegations. Statements hussar their allegiance to the forces of workers and peasants' Russia's Orenburg impressions are not produced. They, like the Czechs took a hussar of the "white bone". Garrison commander and the commander of both the composite Red Guard units in Orenburg Kurach flatly refused to let a hussar in the city.

[sepoy1857]

"Our appearance - hussar dolman, new seat, replete beautiful horses - all very upset members of the delegation. And returning to the city, they unanimously declared Kurach: No, not the red squad. "
Fortunately, the command of Orenburg made telegraphic request the Revolutionary Military Council. There have answered in the affirmative, and the men were able to enter the city.
Squad in late April, has been deployed in the 1 st Orenburg kavpolk of six squadrons of cavalry in 1250. In this case, the commander of Ivanov and his assistant Ushakov swapped. (However, Ivanov later became the Commissioner). Chairman RMC was Kryuchenkin.  The regiment was one of the best, almost did not know defeats and courageously fought near Orenburg, then with the okbr Ushakov in Turkestan. Later, he was been deployed in the 2 nd Brigade 3rd Cavalry Division Turkestan, as part of the expanded 11-st Cavalry Division. Commanded them after Ushakova, by the way, "the first officer of Red" - a graduate of number 1 first Petrograd kavkursov AI Trask - himself a former hussar.
However, these were still ex-Hussars. And in those days was usually wearing a hussar form parties, to the hussars nothing lacking.
In 1918 he formed the so-called Zavolzhsky Brigade Red Hussar, or, as it is called, the brigade Whatman, as commanded by a former cavalry officer Whatman. Originally it was a spare kavdivizion. Which was constituted in Balakleya, in the beginning. In 1920 of two kavdivizionov South and South-Western Fronts, which consisted mainly of former Denikin. Wore the old team uniforms 1 Sumy and third Elisavetgrad Hussars.
Team looked beautiful - a form of hussars was grand. The soldiers wore blue Hungarian gold piping, cords and brass buttons. However, the old autocratic characters - Shoulder Cords, galloons, buttonholes - cruelly thwarted. In old Hungarian cavalry boots placed brass socket. Worn as the Hungarian cavalry chikchiry scarlet with gold edging, spurs, field jackets. Caps were different: the pre-revolutionary regiments different color band. In Sumy regiment he was red in Elisavetgrad - white. Well worn, and other headwear - caps, hats.
Were routinely armed with Red - swords and rifles, as a rule, all systems and gauges. In some squadrons were worn old hussar peaks with streamers of different colors: red, yellow, scarlet and blue, etc. It is known that in December 1917, the old Sumy regiment were given supplies from the storeroom of the Yaroslavl: fur hats, dolman, chikchiry, sashes, mentiki, weathercocks and even 25 silver pipes - for military distinction. "
According to another version, a division outfit from warehouses 10 th Cavalry Division of the old army, including the 10 th Ingermanland Regiment. The only thing not in doubt - the presence of blue vengerok with yellow cords that are worn by all three regiments of the old army: in this form, and assorted headgear (hussars, soldiers' caps, hats, Kuban cap), Red Army men were depicted on film during a parade in Kharkiv 1 May 1920
In the spring of division was merged with 1-m Zavolzhsky Rifle Regiment, which consisted of clicked on the Volga river to the red Kolchak. 1 st Regiment retained the title, and division was renamed the 2 nd Krasnogusarsky. Brigade was transferred to Northern Tavria, where the remnants of the third division, it was the 23rd Infantry Division (in November, it was renamed in the third). Moreover, the first 1-st (7 th) Brigade of this division was b.Zavolzhskaya and 2 nd (8 th) - the remnants of the 3rd Division. In 1921, Zavolzhsky team was 8 th, and the former third division - the 7 th.
October 4, 1920 Zavolzhsky brigade reformed into a special separate summary Zavolzhsky krasnogusarskuyu brigade. It was appointed commander of the former commander of the infantry regiment Zavolzhsky Whatman. Hussars themselves in the team, apparently, was not. For example, Whatman himself was a former officer in the Dragoon 3rd Regiment of Novorossiysk. Krasnogusarskim regiment commanded by the same trooper, but Order's Regiment. Total special brigade has 120 cavalry and 14 officers, not counting the bayonets.
In early 1921 osbr. part of the volatile housing Nesterovich created to fight Makhnovists, and "krasnogusaram" play the role of sentinel horse. The cavalry, consisting of ex-White, was unreliable, therefore, not surprising that in the beginning. In 1921 under Balakleya brigade suffered heavy losses, and to Makhnovists got brand new clothes and hussars breeches taken from cadavers. However, later consolidated with the support of the brigade training team of students managed to deliver a powerful blow to the rebels, and the main role here belongs Zavolzhsky Separately-Rifle Regiment. Former Kolchak were worthy of the former Denikin! Eyewitness M. Rybakov, wrote in his article "Makhnovist operations in 1920" (magazine "Red Army, 1922): "How then shows captured by bandits, the fact that infantry attacking full-length cavalry attacked her, fired at them a particularly strong impression. "It was never that fought against us, so the infantry, this is the first that hits our durom and climbs ahead without fear of bombs galloping horseman ..."
Incidentally, the shape of Zavolzhsky Regiment former Kolchak also deserves attention. As he wrote immediately M. Rybakov, the rebels said in confusion: "It's kind of a black tank ...." "Black tank" - a black astrakhan hats, donated by the Moscow City Council for the differences between the shelf and handed it personally to the chairman t.Lvom Kamenev. For the brave fighting all three compounds - separately-Rifle Regiment, Zavolzhsky krasnogusarsky Regiment and school students - have received honorable revolutionary red banners!
Soon the team was replenished with new fighters and 21 March, having already 2 infantry and 2 Krasnogusarskih Regiment (5 saber squads and a machine gun), was identified as a separate Zavolzhsky division. The structure is the third division was transferred to 46-I Dnipropetrovsk brigade.
May 19 Zavolzhsky Division was withdrawn to the area Chuhuiv-Kharkov. In 1923 it was disbanded: Krasnogusarskaya brigade was transferred to the 9 th Cavalry Division, and from 2 infantry regiments and Kharkov guard regiment formed a new 23rd Infantry Division. Almost all former commanders, officers and then lived in Kharkov. Whatman commander and others were repressed in 1929-30. and executed in 1937-38. Their investigative work in the GPU and is called - "Hussars".

[sepoy1857]

   In late 1918, was formed Narva Cavalry Regiment: From the Upper Ural Cossack Regiment and Narva Regiment (Red Hussar). Last fought in the old uniforms 13th Narva Hussars. He was dressed in Hungarian, chikchiry, cap with white band, worn cords and metal instrument. Joint regiment fought on the Eastern Front in 1918-19. (M. Khvostov. Karachtchouk A. The Russian Civil War (I): The Red Army. London. 1996. P.39 - 40).
In the shape of a hussar wore and the men separate Cavalry Division 21 th Infantry Division. During the summer and autumn of 1919 they were captured by the form of 15-th Ukrainian Hussars: orange-pink (of orange) and the Hungarian dolman with a silver instrument (strings, lace, buttons), black cloth chikchiry instead of red, high boots with rosettes. Attire crowned brown fur hats with blue Shlykov, white Podbornoe scales of metal and high white plumes. Autocratic eagles shako had already been thwarted. But the next day after arriving in the 21 th division, nearly half of them have changed the hussars of the Red Army on the usual hats, caps, caps: whether out of loyalty, or hats in the battle were uncomfortable. (M. Khvostov. Karachtchouk A. The Civil War Russian (I): The Red Army. London. 1996. P.39 - 40).
White officer V. Ryhlinsky said of the 1 st Warsaw Hussars, who, along with Mazowiecki Red Lancers Regiment was formed in August 1918 as part of the 1 st Regiment of the Red Revolutionary Warsaw. Taken prisoner in the summer of 1920 Ryhlinsky recalled that varshavtsy wore old king's coat and cap with yellow edging. Instead of the usual red star they had on their caps silver badge in the form of a horse's head in a horseshoe. This sign was then very popular with the troopers. On the very form of the regiment not available, but we know that the Warsaw red hussar regiment was organized on the basis of the Life Guards of the Grodno Hussars. Grodno regiment was disbanded on March 4, 1918 Order № 236 of the Moscow Regional Military Commissariat. His men and joined the regiment of the Red Warsaw. Former Grodno Regiment wore green Hungarian, yellow cords "lifeguards" two loops on the ends - "eggs." Also, the regiment wore a bearskin with white plumes, dark green, his cap with a red band, Maroon chikchiry etc. One can assume that something of this was worn by the hussars, and later the Red Army.
Interestingly, from June 1918 governing the orchestra in the Warsaw hussar regiment was a volunteer VI Agapkin - the famous author of "Farewell of Slav." It is well known, and his photo, where the musician was captured in the form of a hussar. However, this is definitely not Hungarian "Grodno" hussar. Apparently, different vengerok as hussar regiment lacked.
May 1, 1918 the newly formed 1 st Regiment of the Red Revolutionary Warsaw participated in the first parade of the Red Army in Red Square. Pravda wrote on 05/03/1918: "With brilliance, smartly took the Polish side."
By the way, we can also mention Uhlan form.
In September 1918, 24-I Simbirskaya Railway Division has, in fact, Simbirsk previously occupied by Kappel. In urban arsenal found a form of Simbirsk Lancers that are based on the 5 th Lancers Lithuanian Regiment. Since the division was dressed poorly (as did almost all of the red part of the time), the Divisional Commander G. Guy sent urban tailors customize this form for the Red Army. Soon after I walked the streets on horseback with lances red cavalrymen in Ulanka high plumes in chikchirah and red and blue uniforms. About this incident in his book "Red marshals mentions White emigres Roman Gul. And they themselves Gajewski Red Uhlan in uniform were captured in the photo upon receipt of Honor Revolutionary Red Banner.
One of the nurses, as well as the Commissioner of the 1 st Special Vyatka Division, recalled the name of the regiment Volodarskogo best, in part, and his cavalry: "Interesting guys Hussars volodartsev! One combination of words that costs! And they went into the hussars that way. The regiment was formed in Luga. Gave it a cavalry reconnaissance. In the commissariat found Hussars uniforms: red breeches, blue jacket with white cords around his chest. Bystrehonko Petrograd proletariat mastered the art of stabbing spear and saber. Commanders to pick up from the royal army soldiers - scouts, Grunt - a stubborn head. The regiment "Hussars" asked around Washington, the infantry include traditional - "down".
Initially, the regiment was established as a separate 1-st squadron of hussars im.Volodarskogo, after sending to the front was kavdivizionom Luga separate infantry battalion, at the same time and deployed in the regiment. Subsequently, the regiment was renamed the 187-Rifle in the 21 th of the Perm Division.
In his book "Fighting the way blinovtsev: A History of battles and campaigns of five of Stavropol. ie Blinov Cavalry Division "(Stavropol, 1930. - p. 43) write about the 1 st Tsaritsynsky Revolutionary Cavalry Regiment: "The appearance of the regiment was unusual - each squadron had a special dress uniform - Russian dragoons, hussars and Austrian cavalry, German Lancers , Austrian infantry. " You can imagine the colorful diversity of this regiment!
He formed with 1 August 1918 under the name of the 1 st Rev.kav. Tsaritsyn based arriving from Veliky Novgorod 1 Sots.raboche-peasant squadron. He previously was created in early February as a 1-second red-partisan cavalry regiment of the Guards, formed with the use of NCOs used. Life-Guard Reserve kavpolka. That is why one squadron wore dragoon form.
September 10 tsaritsyntsy allocated for the front division, earned the nickname "brave tsarichan. In early 1919 it was merged with the 2 nd cavalry regiment consolidated Kamyshenskim in the 1 st Kamyshensky kavpolk. Later it was divided into divisions: the 10 th and 11 th. 10 th went to the famous 3rd Don Cossack revpolk, and the 11 th entered first in order komgruppy Belovodsk and then Bokovskuyu ekspedgruppu commanded Muhopertseva. 15iyulya 11-Second Division, 4 th squadron 1 kavdiviziona 33rd st.diviizii and squadron sovrabotnikov Vyoshenskaya County totaled together a regiment of the 36 th Brigade 36 th st.divizii. Soon the team with kavbrigadami the 11 th and 23 th Division entered into an equestrian group of the 9 th Army.
Order of the PBC Army № 421 dated September 17, the group renamed the Cavalry Division out of 9 regiments. Order of the Caucasus Front № 177 from February 27, 1920 the division was renamed the 2 nd, March 6, the division deployed in 6 regiments and 1 st Kamyshensky regiment became the 9 th. In connection with the permanent reorganizations of the cavalry regiment of the RSFSR in k.1922 was 11 m and 14 August 1924 - 29 th. Finally, on April 29, 1927 in memory of "brave tsarichanah" The regiment was renamed Stalingrad-Kamyshensky Cavalry Regiment, and February 29, 1928 nagrazhdeg Order of Red Banner.
Of particular interest is wearing an old hussar and Uhlan form cadets Soviet military academies.
Listeners 1 and 2-x Petrograd kavkursov wore uniforms of the old Life-Guard Hussar Regiment. It consisted of a brown bearskin with a white plume, red dolman, red caps and beskozyrok, blue bridge with red piping and white with a black fur-Hungarian border and gold cord. In those days, the first cadets and officers departing from the walls of schools to the front, wore the same time and dress uniform. Uniforms of the old regime, mixed with the clothes of modern times, has created an unexpected style. Here's what he wrote about the fighting near Voronezh in his "Notes of white partisan" Ataman skins:
"One morning, received a sensational report that in the Usman-Sobakin tierce Budyonny's cavalry attacked, but upset her was that it was ... vanguard corps Mamontov. Survey revealed a misunderstanding captured the Don, but at this time tierce were actually attacked, and, moreover, quite suddenly, the red part of the horse. It was a regiment of Red Petrograd cadets cadets in the 1000 drafts. The riders sat on different horses and wore leather jackets, blue tights with red piping and his cap with the Bolshevik star. Their success was short-lived, because Don's division came up Sekreteva cadets hit right in the rear. Recovering tierce, too, attacked them. Overturned and pinned to a river of cadets, despite a desperate defense, hacked polls.
In shakos and Hungarian students of the 2 nd Petrograd kavshkoly participated in parades and even a funeral Uritskogo. Hungarian were white, with gold embroidery and torn shoulder cords and stripes. On the head of the students wore hats with plumes, but without the badge, though often with the old St. Andrew's stars. It is interesting that the photograph of one of the trainees, where he is depicted with sword and pistol, it is clear that he, too, a cap with the emblem of the cavalry - the horse's head in a horseshoe and with swords.
Wearing this was not uncommon at that time. It is known that some part of the Soviet cavalry in dress uniform of the Life Guards Hussar Regiment came under Petrograd to Yudenich and reached into his army horse battery.
Listeners 1-x Tverskoys kavkursov team wore an old dress uniform Tver Cavalry School, which were torn epaulets and gold lace. Casual uniforms was as follows: a cap with a dark green band and blue crown, edging dark green, plain tunic and breeches, cavalry boots and cavalry coat with dark green edging. In parades, used Lancers shako with a blue bottom and white plumage, and possibly blue-green uniforms with tabs. Orlov shakos covered cloth star. Courses were later reorganized into the 1-st Moscow Cavalry School.
Students of the School of Engineering in Petrograd were of the old form of Nicholas engineering school. These were the uniforms of the cadets, protective trousers, belts with buckles on the eagles and the high officers' shako. Autocratic eagles on them, again, were closed carved Cloth stars. That's closer than the cavalry and Engineering! GE Vvedensky, in his book "Five Centuries of Russian uniform," wrote about it this way: "We are proud to wear the uniforms of cadets cadets conquered along with protective trousers and torn boots. To the parade dressed in high, decorated tinplate shako, where instead of a brilliant eagle burning cloth star. Even earlier information contained in the "notebooks" A. Panteleyev (1924-1947 gg.):
"Sergeant Vedernikov in 1920-21 studied in the Petrograd military engineering school in the Engineers' Castle (where sometime Konduktors'ka classes studied Dostoevsky). In those years, the students, coming at the May or October parade, put on his boots, mentiki and stuff left in the storeroom school. Life was, according to Vedernikov, luxurious. Fed the goose, wore boots with chrome badges on the tops. "
 Well, finally, the most interesting example. General A. T. Stuchenko, later became a major military leader of World War II as a young man wanted to get into the Red Army to fight the enemy. Hiding age, he enlisted in the army, but quickly fell ill with typhus and was sick for a long time. Been released, he went into the labor army battalion. Only since 1921, he became a fighter in the 25 th Chapayev Division, and then falls into the cavalry, with which connected his life long.
He began as a student and changed during this time, three kavshkoly and, accordingly, three sets of uniforms. At first he was an ordinary 11-x kavkursov in the White Church: "I do not believe his luck. On my red trousers breeches, cloth cap with a white cap-band, a saber, rifle, under me the handsome horse with a loud nickname Senegal ... " After the dissolution of the school Stuchenko was transferred in 1922 in Simferopol on the Crimean 1-e kavkursy. There, he wore a shiny Lancers shako with broadsword, shirt, dirty coils and English boots with spurs. This form is, of course, give rise to caustic remarks: "Highly annoyed us and the" former ", which with scorn and derision consider our form. And we were dressed, I must say, really unusual, and a reason for mockery, perhaps, was. Brilliant Lancers shako and sword is hard to reconcile with his tunic, windings, English boots and spurs ". Later were added to the form of captured British coat with blue talk. In autumn 1923 after the reorganization of courses Stuchenko was sent to the 5-th Elisavetgrad Cavalry School. Previously, she was a cadet, so there is an old, very beautiful form (eg, caps seem to dragoon). Together with the new Red Army, it gave an unexpected form: "We now have a beautiful shape: a cap-peakless cap with a white top and dark-green edging, a tunic with light blue stripes -" talking "on his chest, white belt, blue trousers - Ulanka with silver stripes and to top tog Lancers boots. " Also, the students had, as well as on the Crimean course, captured the English coat with blue and talk kavemblemoy with the inscription "5 EKSH. Going to the dismissal of the city, students otdraivali shape to shine. (Stuchenko A. T. enviable our destiny. - Moscow: Military Publishing, 1964).
That's like a friendly locals called them "red cadets!

[Mark Plant]

On the other hand, why would the enemies of the Reds describe their enemy in anything but derogatory terms. The cliche, even then, seems to was that the Reds were a rag tag band of walking compost piles.

Who says all the descriptions are by enemies? There were plenty of neutrals and friends around. Citations in orders from Red Commanders describing their own troops are a decent source too.

The first thing soldiers did after the revolution was tear off all the old insignia and break all the old rules. Many took great pleasure in looking as scruffy as possible. The elite Konnarmiya was incredibly badly dressed, and there are plenty of photos and eyewitness accounts to show it.

Naturally there were exceptions, many of which Sepoy's citations list. Most are merely wearing coloured jackets, hats and trousers. Generally small units (often only squadrons). I'm not sure anyone had disputed that those were worn from time to time. That isn't quite the same as parade metal helmets and dress swords.

The fanciest field uniforms (braided hussar jackets) seem to be mostly 1917 and 1918 and are not so impractical.

The last group of references are specifically to parade uniforms, and many directly refer to the units in the original photographs of the first post. For example: In parades, used Lancers shako with a blue bottom and white plumage, and possibly blue-green uniforms with tabs.

In sum: we know units fought in colourful outfits, but photos of what are obviously parade uniforms are not to be taken as evidence of what was worn in the field.

[sepoy1857]

I just translated Cuprum's link...   I agree Mark - I don't think the fancy stuff lasted very long as it was almost impossible to replace after the original issue wore out and bright red and blue jackets make good targets on the steppe!

[cuprum]

Mark. During this period it was difficult to time to find in general regimentals for armies both white, and red. Hardly it is possible even to assume, that to soldiers gave out both a field uniform and a Smart uniform. Gave that was accessible. Much simply did not suffice. In memoirs of participants of Civil war the divisions dressed in a smart uniform from old stocks of Imperial army are often enough described. Agree, that it is better to go into battle and bear service in not so practical smart uniform, than naked or in a tatter.
More than it is enough proofs and under the references resulted by me above. Esteem attentively.
Here, for example, still memoirs about the First Horse army:
"The form usual: cossack, country, general cavalry. An exception is 11 cavalry division Matusenko (61 and 66 regiments), stuck under Kastorna:
«All fighters and commanders are dressed in a uniform that is called, from a needle - red bridges, hussar uniforms, overcoats with"conversations", helmets (budenovka) with a dark blue star. One squadron was not in helmets, and in caps.
Matusenko has reported on me, that fighters of this squadron, at a meeting with squadron Sobakin..., have exchanged headdresses "

[Remington]

Fascinating discussion, friends! It's very interesting to see that in such chaotic times a blanket uniformity of troops is nothing more than an illusion.

[Ignatieff]

I really dont care about the ins and outs.  If history is a guide than I am sure some red units wore this stuff early on - a uniform is a uniform, and is better than none at all. All soldiers fell that, regardless of ideology. But yes, it would have worn out quickly and then not replaced (step forward captured allied stores...).

Superb photographs Cuprum, bravo! 

[Mark Plant]

Mark. During this period it was difficult to time to find in general regimentals for armies both white, and red. Hardly it is possible even to assume, that to soldiers gave out both a field uniform and a Smart uniform. Gave that was accessible. Much simply did not suffice. In memoirs of participants of Civil war the divisions dressed in a smart uniform from old stocks of Imperial army are often enough described. Agree, that it is better to go into battle and bear service in not so practical smart uniform, than naked or in a tatter.
More than it is enough proofs and under the references resulted by me above. Esteem attentively.
Here, for example, still memoirs about the First Horse army:
"The form usual: cossack, country, general cavalry. An exception is 11 cavalry division Matusenko (61 and 66 regiments), stuck under Kastorna:
«All fighters and commanders are dressed in a uniform that is called, from a needle - red bridges, hussar uniforms, overcoats with"conversations", helmets (budenovka) with a dark blue star. One squadron was not in helmets, and in caps.
Matusenko has reported on me, that fighters of this squadron, at a meeting with squadron Sobakin..., have exchanged headdresses "

I have no issue with this. In general they had one uniform, for field and parade. Sometimes that would involve coloured trousers and caps. Less often, fancy jackets.

The troops in the original photos with the fanciest gear are special though. They are elite troops (kursanty) in the main centres (Petrograd and Moscow) where parades are seen and filmed by foreigners. Almost every capital has dress troops. You really can't tell anything about the military of a country by what their parade troops wear.

http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/NA-BE638_GREECE_G_20100228181937.jpg
http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/9376/00967642yx7.jpg

[Hammers]

I have no issue with this. In general they had one uniform, for field and parade. Sometimes that would involve coloured trousers and caps. Less often, fancy jackets.

The troops in the original photos with the fanciest gear are special though. They are elite troops (kursanty) in the main centres (Petrograd and Moscow) where parades are seen and filmed by foreigners. Almost every capital has dress troops. You really can't tell anything about the military of a country by what their parade troops wear.

http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/NA-BE638_GREECE_G_20100228181937.jpg
http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/9376/00967642yx7.jpg

Speaking of this I read just this morning in Ospey MMA about the Red General Staff wearing quite outrageous parade uniforms. Freely quoted: "there are very few left today since the wives of the officers generally scavenged the crimson material for frocks".

http://books.google.com/books?id=UBbSGEaFZkIC&pg=PA30&hl=sv&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=3#v=onepage&q&f=false

[cuprum]

  I any more do not know as you to convince...
  There are MANY memoirs on participation in fights and red and white groups in an unusual uniform.
Why you do not have questions, what the colour form could carry known Kornilovtsy, Drozdovtsy and Alekseevtsy? And as also many other things White military units...
  When I show you data on use of a colourful uniform in Red army, you say to me, that it only smart capital parts and educational institutions. And if there are such episodes in fighting conditions is only small divisions. I have already resulted earlier some examples in which it is visible, that in Red army carried monotonous colourful uniforms of a regiments and even a division. Yes, it is not regulated uniform. Yes it, in the conditions of bad supply, gradually became unfit for use and "was washed away" by a usual field uniform and civil clothes. However, as well as in white armies. But, I think, in these military units, on an extent war, such subjects were prevailing. Certainly, hulans and hussar a shako as inconvenient, at the first opportunity varied on habitual peak-caps and papakhas. And here other regimentals remain, and these subjects did military unit recognised.
  The further dispute I consider unpromising as you do not pay attention to the proofs furnished by me.
 Yours faithfully, Michael.

[Remington]

Well, the Euzones you've posted are not just for show. They actually fought during WW1/Balkan Wars albeit in a slightly altered uniform. Granted, they do not fight any more and they are now solely guards of parliament and tourist magnets.

As for the discussion... let's not heat things up please. We are all enjoying a common hobby so lets do exactly that. And I personally really enjoy the exchange of two very very knowledgeable people.

[Adam]

Lovely. After this I will not be surprised to see a regiment of Reds in bowlers, fedoras or anything millinery.

On the other hand, why would the enemies of the Reds describe their enemy in anything but derogatory terms. The cliche, even then, seems to was that the Reds were a rag tag band of walking compost piles.

I don't know whether you mean you're not surpised about the references to fedoras and bowlers you've already seen, or whether you haven't heard of it but here's a photo from Adam Zamoyski's 'Warsaw 1920':



There is a reference to a mention in an account of a red soldier spotted in a bowler hat on p24.

Also, this passage on p64 from Charles de Gaulle:

"...as some were barefoot, others wore bast leggings, others some kind of rubber confections(see the photo above), and they wore a variety of headgear , even ladies hats, winter caps and kerchiefs, or nothing at all, with their hair in the wind."

In the accounts from the Polish war I think it was as more down to the terrible supply situation they experienced during the Red Army's rapid advance than a desire to be derogatory about the Reds, but I agree that we should perhaps be wary about who's saying what and why. However, as Mark has pointed out, it isn't just enemy observers who comment on this scruffiness.

Thank you for the informative photos Cuprum. I'd heard about the hussar jackets in the osprey on the red army but had never seen photos of them. I'd assumed they were all rapidly replaced but the photo from kharkov you posted would indicate that some were worn for a lot longer than I thought. Would these jackets have just been worn on parades (like the photo) or were they worn in combat that late on?

Thank you again for the photos and examples Cuprum and thanks to Mark and Sepoy1857 for info you've given in this thread. When you only have access to the one Osprey book, threads like this are a godsend to someone who is interested in RCW Red uniforms.

[argsilverson]

Well, the Euzones you've posted are not just for show. They actually fought during WW1/Balkan Wars albeit in a slightly altered uniform. Granted, they do not fight any more and they are now solely guards of parliament and tourist magnets.

Just some info: The evzones was a kind of an elite light infantry. They fought with distinctions in all theaters of various wars including the balkan wars, WW1, Foreign Intervention in Ukraine against the bolsheviks, asia minor campaign, WW2. There was a distinction There were 5 regiments in the army and a unit of Royal guards. The evzonic regiments were disbanded and they are not anymore part of the greek army due a very sad fact. The collaborators during the german occupation dressed their troops in surplus evzonic uniforms!
So, the reorganisation of the army after WW2 did not include any evzones. The only unit left is now the ceremonial presidential guard. The uniform depicted in the picture is the ceremonial uniform used in holidays etc which is based on the 1897 uniform. They use another uniform for the weekdays which is similar to 1907 dress but in blue. Here is a link:
http://www.softwareartist.com/SCRAPBOOK/Greece/Athens_01.JPG
From the balkan wars onwards they used the same uniform but in khaki.

In order to connect this reply to the Back of beyond themed thread please note that evzones have taken part in the "Crimea expedition" as part of the allied intervention army.
here is the link of the uniform:
http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/7995/1913evzsgt4xn.jpg
and here is some link for the greek army OB in Russia 1919
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?131887-The-Greek-Army-in-Russia-1919

It would be nice to play a battle with some evzones alongwith some french zouaves and poles against colourful reds in unusual uniforms