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Author Topic: Steampunk and Victorian Science Fiction - is there a difference?  (Read 12992 times)

Offline Frontal Assault 15mm

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Well is there?

Offline Thunderchicken

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Re: Steampunk and Victorian Science Fiction - is there a difference?
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2012, 09:04:35 AM »
Put bluntly yes. Here's one discussion to get you started:

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=27482.0
Don't!

Offline James Holloway

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Re: Steampunk and Victorian Science Fiction - is there a difference?
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2012, 09:53:45 AM »
Initially, definitely -- but over the last ten years or so, the use of the term "steampunk" has broadened so much that many people now use it to include all sorts of things, including VSF, that it didn't refer to previously.

Offline DrVesuvius

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Re: Steampunk and Victorian Science Fiction - is there a difference?
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2012, 10:26:15 AM »
Such an innocent sounding question, to have caused so much bloodshed over so many web fora!  :)

The problem starts when you ask six steampunks "What is steampunk?" and you get a dozen different replies, half of them directly contradictory.  For some it's all about celebrating Victorian aestheticsm, while others focus on the "-punk" and reject the Victoriana aspects.

Add to that a little fuzziness over what constitutes "Victorian Science Fiction" - is it recreating science fiction stories from the Victorian age, or taking modern science fiction elements and layering a Victorian veneer over them?

(Just for shits and giggles, mix a bit of Gothic Horror in there as well to confuse matters further.  If a book has dirigibles and clockwork automata AND vampires and werewolves, is it Steampunk, VSF or GH?  Or how about Planetary Romance?  John Carter is an actual Victorian Science Fiction series and a major inspiration for Space 1889, yet there's barely a rivet in sight and the stories have more in common with the Sword & Sorcery genre.)

Personally I consider Steampunk and VSF to be closely related concepts, intertwined and overlapping, with fuzzy distinctions between the two.  Most VSF includes Steampunk elements, and a lot of Steampunk (but not all) is strongly informed by Victorian elements.  In casual usage, 90% of the time I feel you can use both terms interchangeably.  Except of course on internet message boards, when doing so will likely bring down wrathful nerdrage from the peanut gallery.

I don't agree that the term "Steampunk" has itself broadened so much in the last ten years.  "The Difference Engine", one of the original definitive steampunk novels from 1990, describes a world that's undeniably VSF - steam vehicles and mechanical computers in Victorian London.  Granted the text focuses a lot on the social dystopian elements, which some folks consider the "pure" definition of "-punk". But steampunk has however become much more mainstream in the last ten years and I think people are more ready to use it as a label to attach to things they couldn't previously categorise.

Just my tuppence-ha'penny.

Dr V

Offline Fuzzywuzzieswiflasers

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Re: Steampunk and Victorian Science Fiction - is there a difference?
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2012, 11:37:55 AM »
A very good summary Dr V :)

Yes its the punk part that is mainly dystopian.

VSF is a lot more optimistic and marvels at the wonders of science and its possibilities.

The punk aspects of steampunk focuses on how the wonders of science will subjugate and dehumanise us all.

heady stuff what?

 ;)

Fuzzy.
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torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals.
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Offline The_Beast

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Re: Steampunk and Victorian Science Fiction - is there a difference?
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2012, 12:23:40 PM »
***snippage***

The problem starts when you ask six steampunks "What is steampunk?" and you get a dozen different replies, half of them directly contradictory.

***yet more massive snippage***

Dr V


Indicating, of course, multiple answers from some, and there's no denying, self-contradiction in some. I do disagree some with Dr. V's assessment, as it appears that the term Steampunk has, in common use, spread to cover all the endeavors above. In the common vernacular, there's a sense that not a difference, but rather a refinement. VSF is a niche in Steampunk. Gothic Horror, another.

Not so much to me, as I tend to have definitions for each in mind, which are not necessarily mutually exclusive. I can use the term Steampunk/VSF, or GothicHorrorPunk, but I will see each as a mixing of elements. Unless, I'm too tired to be so pedantic, with muggles or not.  :D

Doug

Offline Plynkes

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Re: Steampunk and Victorian Science Fiction - is there a difference?
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2012, 12:36:54 PM »
John Carter is an actual Victorian Science Fiction series

What do you mean when you say 'actual?' The setting may be Victorian (I don't know, never read it), but it wasn't written during the Victorian era.
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Offline Thunderchicken

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Re: Steampunk and Victorian Science Fiction - is there a difference?
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2012, 12:43:52 PM »
Posted by Colonel Kane over on Frothers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFCuE5rHbPA


Online Sterling Moose

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Re: Steampunk and Victorian Science Fiction - is there a difference?
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2012, 01:03:58 PM »
Awesome!!
'I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free.'

Offline Ray Rivers

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Re: Steampunk and Victorian Science Fiction - is there a difference?
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2012, 01:26:18 PM »
Posted by Colonel Kane over on Frothers.

 lol

Offline The_Beast

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Re: Steampunk and Victorian Science Fiction - is there a difference?
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2012, 04:49:26 PM »
Posted by Colonel Kane over on Frothers.

Reminds me: I still need to finish the set of screen caps I was going to put up in the store bathroom... ;->=

Doug

Offline Pappa Midnight

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Re: Steampunk and Victorian Science Fiction - is there a difference?
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2012, 03:51:04 PM »
Depends who you ask.
Not a good answer but seems to be the way of it.
I quite like the phrase "steampulp" which has been bandied about.
PM
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Offline DrVesuvius

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Re: Steampunk and Victorian Science Fiction - is there a difference?
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2012, 08:32:27 AM »
What do you mean when you say 'actual?' The setting may be Victorian (I don't know, never read it), but it wasn't written during the Victorian era.

Good point, put it down to a momentary brain fart, The Barsoom books were of course written in the pulp era, though you could argue that A Princess of Mars in 1912 has one foot in both eras.

Offline tnjrp

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Re: Steampunk and Victorian Science Fiction - is there a difference?
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2012, 08:46:53 AM »
Posted by Colonel Kane over on Frothers
The good Colonel does seem to rather sum up the current state of steampunk. Jeff Vandermeer and SJ Chambers note something of the same in their The Steampunk Bible: since it's devolved into a marketing gimmick and/or changed into a lifestyle, steampunk doesn't really need to have too much steam or punk these days (according to some, it never did - particularly not with the p word), nor yet does it have affinity with a specific era or culture, so the main difference between Victorian Science Fiction and steampunk would that VSF would seem to me to be more restrictive in scope.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2012, 08:48:41 AM by tnjrp »

Offline The_Beast

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Re: Steampunk and Victorian Science Fiction - is there a difference?
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2012, 01:57:24 PM »
... so the main difference between Victorian Science Fiction and steampunk would that VSF would seem to me to be more restrictive in scope.

Which is what I was saying, though apparently not so clearly.  lol

But, I will say, again, this is the view from outside our hobby, not mine personally.

Doug

 

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