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Author Topic: Steampunk and Victorian Science Fiction - is there a difference?  (Read 12993 times)

Offline Parriah

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Re: Steampunk and Victorian Science Fiction - is there a difference?
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2012, 02:13:06 PM »
I would say that all steam punk is VSF, but NOT all VSF is necessarily Steam Punk.
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Offline Dr Mathias

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Re: Steampunk and Victorian Science Fiction - is there a difference?
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2012, 02:20:10 PM »
According to my investigations, women classified as Steampunk are less modest than women classified as VSF :)

Steampunk men often strike me as slimy Oscar Wilde wannabes dipped in gadgetry. Scoundrels of a minor sort, nowhere near the likes of Mr. Hyde, Dorian Gray, or Moriarty.  

Not intending to pass judgement on Steampunk, I enjoy the genre- immodest dresses, guns with many barrels, contraptions, sword canes, brass and rivets- but above all the inventiveness and DIY attitude of its fans.

We host a massive high school "Art Day" at my school each year, and we did a Steampunk theme last year. It was great fun. I dressed as Van Pelt from Jumanji. The students and high school art teachers went nuts with their costumes.

Seriously though, I miss the days when Victorian era inspired coolness was just that, without labels and classifications.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2012, 02:36:14 PM by Dr Mathias »
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Offline James Holloway

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Re: Steampunk and Victorian Science Fiction - is there a difference?
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2012, 02:31:59 PM »
The funny thing is that the works originally identified as "steampunk" -- novels by K.W. Jeter, James P. Blaylock, and Tim Powers -- weren't exclusively about the Victorian period either. The Anubis Gates is set in the Regency period and the modern day, for example. Jeter was just making a little riff on the term "cyberpunk".

Offline Melnibonean

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Re: Steampunk and Victorian Science Fiction - is there a difference?
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2012, 02:53:03 PM »
sight and the stories have more in common with the Sword & Sorcery genre.)

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Offline Alfrik

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Re: Steampunk and Victorian Science Fiction - is there a difference?
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2012, 04:39:10 PM »
I perfer the answer "yes and no, now lets have a cold one, put up our feet and discuss it at length" myself ;)
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Offline DrVesuvius

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Re: Steampunk and Victorian Science Fiction - is there a difference?
« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2012, 06:43:56 PM »
I would say that all steam punk is VSF, but NOT all VSF is necessarily Steam Punk.

Really?  I'd have said if anything the opposite is true.

Consider a story or game set on a fantasy world, with airships and steam powered leviathans and people bouncing around in clockwork-powered armoured suits.  That would be Steampunk, but it wouldn't be VSF.

(I struggled for a long time trying to come up with an example of VSF that isn't Steampunk.  The closest I can think of is something like an undiluted War Of The Worlds, where apart from the Martian invaders, everything else in the world is standard real-world Victorian-age technology, with no -punk about it)

Dr V

Offline abdul666lw

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Re: Steampunk and Victorian Science Fiction - is there a difference?
« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2012, 07:00:43 PM »
A good exchange of opinions on TMP, more than a year ago:
http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=225536

From which I quote this definitive difference:
Quote
In VSF women wear corsets under their clothes, in SP they wear it over their clothes.

Offline Melnibonean

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Re: Steampunk and Victorian Science Fiction - is there a difference?
« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2012, 02:48:06 PM »
... an undiluted War Of The Worlds, where apart from the Martian invaders, everything else in the world is standard real-world Victorian-age technology, with no -punk about it)

Dr V

But if you look at Well's "The War in the Air" there are plenty of inventions and concepts that to a Vistorian would have seemed very outlandish and futuristic - monorails, clockwork fliers, air-armarda's, derigibles that launch their own fighter escorts. Almost stemapunkish but from a very notable VSF source.

Offline Parriah

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Re: Steampunk and Victorian Science Fiction - is there a difference?
« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2012, 04:33:02 PM »
Really?  I'd have said if anything the opposite is true.

Consider a story or game set on a fantasy world, with airships and steam powered leviathans and people bouncing around in clockwork-powered armoured suits.  That would be Steampunk, but it wouldn't be VSF.

(I struggled for a long time trying to come up with an example of VSF that isn't Steampunk.  The closest I can think of is something like an undiluted War Of The Worlds, where apart from the Martian invaders, everything else in the world is standard real-world Victorian-age technology, with no -punk about it)

Dr V

Have you ever read Edgar Rice Burroughs?

Offline Pappa Midnight

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Re: Steampunk and Victorian Science Fiction - is there a difference?
« Reply #25 on: April 12, 2012, 04:53:14 PM »
Strangely enough Jules Verne wrote a book about a dystopian future, ruled by commerce with towering glass skyscrapers, gas powered cars, a Telegraphic Internet, Highspeed trains and computers.........in 1863. So Verne was a Victorian Science Fiction Writer ( a REAL one) writing what a lot of people consider steampunk themes...... Go figure.....!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_in_the_Twentieth_Century

PM
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Offline Melnibonean

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Re: Steampunk and Victorian Science Fiction - is there a difference?
« Reply #26 on: April 13, 2012, 12:57:11 AM »
Strangely enough Jules Verne wrote a book about a dystopian future, ruled by commerce with towering glass skyscrapers, gas powered cars, a Telegraphic Internet, Highspeed trains and computers.........in 1863. So Verne was a Victorian Science Fiction Writer ( a REAL one) writing what a lot of people consider steampunk themes...... Go figure.....!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_in_the_Twentieth_Century

PM

I read that one only a few months back. You forgot to mention "Colour Photography" which has rendered painters and artists obsolete!!! He even envisaged a concept somewhat similar "Skype". Even more interesting was that telecommunications was the most powerful force on the planet.

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Offline Pappa Midnight

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Re: Steampunk and Victorian Science Fiction - is there a difference?
« Reply #27 on: April 13, 2012, 11:08:15 AM »
I read that one only a few months back. You forgot to mention "Colour Photography" which has rendered painters and artists obsolete!!! He even envisaged a concept somewhat similar "Skype". Even more interesting was that telecommunications was the most powerful force on the planet.

IanKH

Is it a good read? I've heard mixed reports. Some love it, others say it feels unfinished.
PM

Offline abdul666lw

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Re: Steampunk and Victorian Science Fiction - is there a difference?
« Reply #28 on: April 13, 2012, 12:48:39 PM »
Don't forget Robida http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Robida
http://www.gloubik.info/livres/robida/robida-vie-electrique.html
http://www.gloubik.info/livres/robida/robida-guerre-au-20e-siecle.html
http://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Le_vingti%C3%A8me_si%C3%A8cle/Partie_I/Chapitre_1
No many rivets, but steampunk nonetheless!
His future was quite dystopian at times.

A minor but interesting point is how he used the bicycle rider dress [baggy breeches and socks, under a very short -for the time- open skirt] -by then almost futuristic, and a mark of a new degree in women emancipation- to illustrate 'active / equal to man' women of the future:



« Last Edit: April 13, 2012, 01:10:32 PM by abdul666lw »

Offline DrVesuvius

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Re: Steampunk and Victorian Science Fiction - is there a difference?
« Reply #29 on: April 13, 2012, 12:54:06 PM »
Have you ever read Edgar Rice Burroughs?

Only the first three Barsoom books, to be honest I found his writing not to my taste. But yes, Barsoom could be seen as VSF without Steampunk, though I personally feel Sword & Planet stories are more a part of fantasy than SF.

But if you look at Well's "The War in the Air" there are plenty of inventions and concepts that to a Vistorian would have seemed very outlandish and futuristic - monorails, clockwork fliers, air-armarda's, derigibles that launch their own fighter escorts. Almost stemapunkish but from a very notable VSF source.

Which just shows how fuzzily intertwined the two genres are. But it doesn't make War Of The Worlds Steampunk. Unless we're also going to say "The History Of Mr Polly" is too.

 

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