28mm Pirate Ship Progress.

[Maksim-Smelchak]

28mm Pirate Ship Progress.

Hi All,

I'm trying a different approach to posting.

I've been working on a 28mm pirate ship project and posted a few photos of the work I've done.

I've been doing alot of customization building lanterns from beads and card, adding custom mast sockets, building a front cabin and more.

I'd love to hear more about other's pirate ship projects or recommendations you might have for making mine better.

Link to other photos here:
http://6mm-minis.blogspot.com/2008/01/mini-wargaming-added-lanterns-doors-to.html

And here:
http://s44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/Maksim-Smelchak/28mm_Pirates/28mm-Pirate-Ship_1-12-2008/

Thanks for your time and consideration.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

[Super_Gibbon]

Nice, keep the in progress shots coming. The Gibbon loves seeing things come together.

[Rhoderic]

Very nice work. I haven't even ordered my ships for pirate gaming yet, but I think I know which ones to get. One, the pirate ship, will be from ESLO (who are being very anal-retentive about what countries they will ship to, but I'll get around that somehow) and the other, the navy/merchant ship, will be a Conquistador Brigantine from Outpost, decked out with some extra ESLO bits. I'm gaming swashbuckling in a very fantastical style so I don't care if they look historically incorrect.

I probably won't do a lot of customization on these ships, so that I can have a simple project for a change. I'm currently making a couple of 17th-18th century coaches out of the Michael's wedding favour trinkets that were quite a hot topic of discussion on TMP around a year ago, and I'm doing quite a lot of customization on these. That's why I want my pirate ship project to be a simple one.

But not to hijack this thread, I repeat: Very nice conversions you've done there. I can't wait to see the ship finished.

[eladio fernandez]

Maksim,


Wow, it looks wonderfull!
I would not like meet with such beast on the seas
I admire the effort in the details you have made in it.

Congratulations, good job.



Eladio

[matakishi]

Great work Maksim, keep it coming...

[Plynkes]

Coming along nicely.

One thing: Crow's nests? Do you want to be laughed out of the Caribbean as an infernal lubber? An 18th Century fighting ship wouldn't have a crow's nest. But then again, pirates wanting to appear to be nothing more than a harmless merchantman might retain one for purposes of disguise...

But I'd still laugh and point and call you a sissy pirate!  

[Rhoderic]

An 18th Century fighting ship wouldn't have a crow's nest.

Pray tell, why?

[Plynkes]

Not sure, exactly. Perhaps regarded as not necessary. They seem to have fallen out of use for navy ships, though you see them on earlier ones (such as from the time of the Armada).

Lookouts would perch at the top of the mainmast, and they would pride themselves on being able to stay up there without a basket to sit in. And real seamen would go so far as to disdain using the 'lubber's hole' as a way of getting to the tops, but climb up the far more perilous outside route. Crow's nests were just unnavy-like things, looked down upon as something used by slovenly seamen who took no pride in their work.

In one of the Jack Aubrey books (I forget which one), one of the things they do to disguise the Surprise as a whaler is to jury-rig a crow's nest. I know that is a bit later on, but things change slowly in the Royal Navy.

[Westfalia Chris]

Interesting discussion. I usually refer to the interpretation (Landström and zu Mondfeld) that the crow´s nest only came into widespread use in the second half of the 18th century when it became useful to place snipers there (ie accurate firearms where available). Apparently, there were no crow´s nests before, and while similar pieces where used from the middle ages up to the 16th century (in a "tub" shape, called a "Mastkorb" in German (translates roughly as "mast basket"), then fell out of favour until the 1750-60s or so.

[Plynkes]

Well there you go, you obviously know more about it than me!  

Those basket thingies were what I was thinking about when referring to the Armada, I have usually only seen them referred to as "Crow's nests" in English.

I did not know they had come back in as a sniper platform and then fallen out of favour again. I'm more familiar with snipers just being in the tops (as in the Napoleonic period). They often had canvas screens to duck down behind while loading, but those weren't called crow's nests.

Very interesting. You learn something new every day here.

[Westfalia Chris]

Well there you go, you obviously know more about it than me!  

Those basket thingies were what I was thinking about when referring to the Armada, I have usually only seen them referred to as "Crow's nests" in English.

It´s indeed the "technical term" and the only such term in English, whereas in German, the literal translation of "Krähennest" referred to the platform variant used from 1750-1875; however, after that, it is also used generically for all kinds of lookout posts.

I did not know they had come back in as a sniper platform and then fallen out of favour again. I'm more familiar with snipers just being in the tops (as in the Napoleonic period). They often had canvas screens to duck down behind while loading, but those weren't called crow's nests.

Now that you mention it, it makes more sense to actually position snipers in the tops (better field of vision). However, I guess the crow´s nest would make a more stable, thus better firing platform? The earlier use (during the middle ages by archery, which were preferred to black powder weapons well into the 16th century for accuracy reasons) is depicted on medieval and early modern (reluctant to use "Renaissance" for the definition reasons) tapestries, book illuminations and paintings.

Don´t take mine as the last word, though. It´s just what I recall from my decades of amateurish ship-loving (never having found the patience to build actual ship MODELS as opposed to pretty gaming toys). I´ll check with my books to make sure, but I´m 95% sure on the platform/basket chronology issue, and, say, 60% for the sniper thing.

We´ve been spoilt by all those lovable, if horribly inaccurate Hollywood flicks (watching the 1950 version of "Treasure Island" as I type). Just the same thing with shipwheels - apparently not used prior to the 1750s, at the earliest... next ship I build won´t have one, but a helmsman cab. Less fiddly things that can break.

[warrenpeace]

We´ve been spoilt by all those lovable, if horribly inaccurate Hollywood flicks (watching the 1950 version of "Treasure Island" as I type). Just the same thing with shipwheels - apparently not used prior to the 1750s, at the earliest... next ship I build won´t have one, but a helmsman cab. Less fiddly things that can break.

Oh no!  What was used for steering then in the 17th Century and early 18th Century?  What do I do now with those oversized ships wheels on my various pirate ship models?  Beginning to panic...

[Westfalia Chris]

Oh no!  What was used for steering then in the 17th Century and early 18th Century?  What do I do now with those oversized ships wheels on my various pirate ship models?  Beginning to panic...

In case it´s a serious question, they used a "helmsman´s lever" (called a "Kolderstock" in German) which moved the tiller while requiring lesser effort (due to the lever effect). Usually, the helmsman had a little cabin over his head from where he could watch the state and movement of the sails.

[PeteMurray]

In English, the handle connected to the tiller is called the "whipstaff." So the whipstaff moves the tiller, and the tiller moves the rudder.

As Chris pointed out, it's just a matter of which machine you use to magnify force. The whipstaff uses the lever; the ship's wheel is a, well, wheel.

I'd leave your ship's wheels on. They just look better.

[Westfalia Chris]

In English, the handle connected to the tiller is called the "whipstaff." So the whipstaff moves the tiller, and the tiller moves the rudder.

So THAT´s what it is called. Thanks a bunch.

As Chris pointed out, it's just a matter of which machine you use to magnify force. The whipstaff uses the lever; the ship's wheel is a, well, wheel.

Exactly. Ship´s wheels until the late 1800s used a system of ropes and pulleys to transfer the power to the tiller; after that, powered transfer (a vintage pre-decessor of assisted steering in modern cars, if you like) became standard for military and steam-powered ships, and for those sailing ship owners who could afford it.

I'd leave your ship's wheels on. They just look better.

That´s the key factor. If you recall, in Summer 06, I built a pirate ship (which has now found a new port of call at the Isla Witchheimer), and although I decidedly wanted to play 17th century pirates, I used a wheel just for the "Hollywood Feel".