Medieval News

[Patrice]

the casual observer and his readers, who most likely understood the same conventions. Later generations though, like us, tend to be more literal and we take 'an army of x thousand men' as meaning just that.

Yes. In our modern times, if an observer says that a political demonstration brought 10,000 people in the street in France, it could mean that there was 5,000 people (if the observer is one of the organisers) or 15,000 people (if the observer is a police officer). And we understand this convention.

[Paul]

Yes. In our modern times, if an observer says that a political demonstration brought 10,000 people in the street in France, it could mean that there was 5,000 people (if the observer is one of the organisers) or 15,000 people (if the observer is a police officer). And we understand this convention.

[Atheling]

No apology required... I don't tend to bookmark threads either.  

Quite. Sometimes threads have a habit of digressing.... like this one   .

I have to also admit only knowing about them because I was required to read them a while back, although, as you say Anne Curry is always on top of her game. Medieval army numbers are really difficult to pin down. It was very common to raise troops for an army, especially on the continent, just to have them available for the menial tasks like digging and siege work.[/ quote]

 I think that Anne  Curry really pinned down what is a likely approximation of the numbers of French at Agincourt.  Her book, Agincourt, A new History goes to great lengths to place the main French protagonists where they were at particular points in the campaign (in as far as that is possible) and it does seem, to me, that she makes some very good points on just how many soldiers it was possible to get to that little village on  Friday 25th of  October 1415.

The later Francs-Archers became synonymous with the expression 'Francs-Taupins' ('Free Moles' or 'Free Beetles', depending on who you believe), although they were originally different entities. The militias in Italy, with the exception of the 'select' ones like Milan and Venice, had also become a means of just raising labourers for the same tasks by the mid-fifteenth century.

Indeed, I concur. The term Franks Archers may be one of the most misunderstood terms in Late Medieval history as it meant very different things at different times.

All of these 'non-soldiers', along with the camp followers, servants and whatever else, were probably numbered amongst 'armies', hugely inflating their numbers to the casual observer and his readers, who most likely understood the same conventions. Later generations though, like us, tend to be more literal and we take 'an army of x thousand men' as meaning just that.

Froissart, the master of exaggeration is a prime example of this.  Though it has to be born in mind that he was using literary convention not unfamiliar for the 'period'

Nevertheless, Henry's victory was still an achievement and very much against the odds... just perhaps not as much as it's been 'bigged-up' over the centuries.

Indeed. A triumph against the odds it was. Just that the odds weren't as large as most Medieval military historians would have us believe. This is especially exemplified in the work of the modern author, Juliet Barker.

Darrell.

[Arlequín]

Yes. In our modern times, if an observer says that a political demonstration brought 10,000 people in the street in France, it could mean that there was 5,000 people (if the observer is one of the organisers) or 15,000 people (if the observer is a police officer). And we understand this convention.

Perspective...

The Organisers see those who form their followers = 5,000 people.
Some of those followers have bought a friend, as they plan on going to a club later = 2,000 people

8,000 people are there trying to get on the TV cameras, take photos for their blog or Facebook, or just curious to see why there are so many people here.

The Police see anyone not in uniform as being trouble = 15,000 people.

[Paul]

 recreated miniature version of the Bayeux Tapestry ..only took 10.000 hours!


The Video gets a bit repetetive...News Report with pics here
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2305699/History-fanatic-spends-18-YEARS-hand-stitching-version-Bayeux-Tapestry-40ft-long.html

[Paul]

Bathing in the middle Ages
http://www.medievalists.net/2013/04/13/did-people-in-the-middle-ages-take-baths/

[Paul]

Stepmothers as Villains: the dark side of Medieval Motherhood (download)
Contains nice Little dittys like;

Jehu has Jezebel thrown from her tower for her sins and she dies crushed by horses and eaten by dogs

http://www.academia.edu/522310/Stepmothers_as_Villains_the_dark_side_of_Medieval_Motherhood

[Paul]

If they reckon it´s a black death burial ground, shouldn´t they wear protective gear
http://www.crossrail.co.uk/news/articles/14th-century-burial-ground-discovered-in-london#.UW7xHPbwDwo

[Arlequín]

You would think so... I know that when they move cemeteries with 'cholera' era (19th Century) burials they gear up. That's usually due to the potential presence of metal caskets though, which can seal in all sorts of nasty stuff.

It's a risky business though: http://www.crai-ky.com/education/reports-cem-hazards.html 

[Paul]

Makes pretty grim reading.. the warning about disturbing Images is a bit OTP, unless I´ve missed on of the links.
I knew someone who was part of a Team clearing a victorian era graveyard. He said they found quite a few sealed lead coffins. They had a Special plastic trough that theý put the lead coffins into so that the coffin was leant at an angle, foot end down, then they´d use a drill to make a hole in the bottom and another at the top to let the "liquids" drain out before the lid could be cut off with an angle grinder. Wether this was 100% true I don´t know but everyday he came back from work with loads of bits and pieces that the archeologists had "missed"

[Arlequín]

I would like to think it was done with a bit more respect myself, but it's probably not far off the mark. Most companies begrudge the time spent on archaeology during development, so who knows?

[Atheling]

I would like to think it was done with a bit more respect myself, but it's probably not far off the mark. Most companies begrudge the time spent on archaeology during development, so who knows?

I used to work at Durham Cathedral and I certainly concur with the statement above!! 

Darrell.

[Little Odo]

The archaeologists will show respect, but the building contractors want them and what they find out of the way as soon as possible - time is money after all 

I have been involved in quite a few excavations, but not any rescue archaeology, so I have never had any time constraints put on me. All bones found have always been handled with extreme reverence and care from what I have observed and done myself.

I have not come across any sealed lead coffins though, but I imagine that the fluid contained within could be extremely noxious and not pleasant to be around, especially if the person died of something nasty. I can understand drilling the holes to let it drain out to stop conservators and other experts being poisoned in any way - health and safety being paramount in these instances.

[Paul]

Robert the Bruce letter to Edward I  found
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-22734279
but of course the telegraph puts a "mild" slant on the Content
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10092461/Robert-the-Bruce-begged-English-for-peace-letter-shows.html

[Paul]

First medieval Comic?
http://www.enluminures.culture.fr/documentation/enlumine/fr/BM/dijon_035-01.htm