(KICKSTARTER) Mongoose's Judge Dredd Block War

[tnjrp]

I don't think the "miniatures someone wants" approach is going to change much based on the KS project, judging by what Mr. Sprange posted today on Mongoose's forum. If I understood it correctly they are going be polling for opinions about stretch goal extras.

All the same, here's the actual project page:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1990654819/judge-dredd-miniatures-game-block-war

[kalamadea]

hrm, this is about as bad as Mantic's original Kickstarter. Looks like most of the pledge levels are to pay full retail price to wait a few months to get stuff that's already available, just with free shipping. More importantly, there's no greens or concept art for any of the miniatures they plan to use the KS money for, no schedule of when they expect to get moreeminis out, nothing at all really except that it will let them "be more ambitious with their releases". It's a low enough goal that they'll certainly make it in only a few days and then go pure stretch goals for most of the run, but there's just no substance here beyond the $100 resin tanks.

Oh well, at least it made me realise the rules were free. I may use it to do some not-necromunda after I give it a good read through.

[Hat Guy]

I've donated and should be getting a Justice Department starter and a Judge Dredd.

I just can't resist "postage free" to Australia. 

[Love_the_Lash]

Honestly this kickstarter doesn't inspire me, the stretch goals are non existent ATM and the things you can get as pledges are a bit meh given you can buy most of them anyway. Not really feeling it. I think relic knights was a good example of how it should be done, at the moment this isn't.

[Ray Rivers]

It would appear that if you really want to snag a good deal, the minimum pledge would be $300.

Perhaps... the bar is set too high. Dunno...

[clam]

It looks much as a campaign to generate some sales (by some free shipping and a little bonus robot) and thereby make  money to have new box-sets made. Nothing wrong with that of course, and will see my support, but I would have wished there was a few "bones" for the lower level supporters, too. Nothing really exciting unless you got $300 to spend

[Grimjack]

it may also be worth mentioning that, although I have some Mongoose Dredd figures (the Angel Gang is great!), the Foundry figures have been re-packed so you get more than one, they have the singles packs on sale for a reasonable price and were giving some away with mail orders. In fact, from Saturday 22nd September and throughout Saturdays in October, they are trialling being open to customers. Which means I will be picking up some more 2000AD minis, including Nort and Souther troopers in the new multiple packs. 

[Chuckaroobob]

Ok, I'm in!  Maybe I should go digging for the olde Citadel Dredd figs that have been lurking in the basement for the past couple decades.

[tnjrp]

Despite the critisism, the Mongoose KS project looks to be doing decently enough. They've passed $16.000 mark and are releasing more stretch goals -- albeit piecemeal. Next to attain are a Sov Judge squad and then some personalities, inlcuding Judge Anderson.

[Major_Gilbear]

...I personally find this KS to be confusing.  

For example, if I were to pledge "Street Judge" ($60.00), what exactly would I be getting?

Pledge $60 or more

Street Judge - Get yourself and a friend immersed in the world of Mega-City One with two box sets containing two complete forces for the Judge Dredd miniatures game, so you and a friend can dive right in. Post-free, to anywhere in the world. You may select two sets already available or any that are unlocked by our stretch goals.

What does "two complete forces" mean? Just a couple of gang boxes? And what sets are "already available" - the stuff in their webstore? Next, where new stuff has been unlocked by stretch goals, where is it and how exactly do you get hold of it?

Finally, are there any bonus items/sets/trinkets? If so what are they and where are they shown?


I mean, I like Dredd a lot, and if I'm just getting some figs, Mongoose is as good as anyone else really. But this KS is really badly laid out and (as far as I can see), the only real "incentive" is free shipping and a fairly modest discount at the high-end pledge levels.

If they want money from folks like me, they're going to have to do much better and be much clearer.

[MongooseMatt]

Hi guys,

Gone are the days when a company was so sure about their idea that they risked their own money...

You do know there has been a recession on   Seriously, anything that helps hobby companies right now is not a bad thing. These are not exactly boom times.

(and that's IF it ever makes it to market, hello SST:Evolution, prepainted B5 ships, SST landing craft, plastic LAMI troopers).

To be fair... I am not sure where you heard about pre-painted B5 ships, as they were never on the cards, the SST Landing Craft did come out in the end, and in place of the plastic LAMI (which were prototyped but just awful) we released a metal set at the same price.

they're still a small company.

Never really claimed otherwise.

the 4 editions of babylon 5 in as many years (only to very suddenly be dropped).

Again, to be fair, two editions and one revised when it was reprinted. And the dropping was not very sudden - we gave, what, nearly six months warning it was happening and a discount on the entire range so people could complete their collections. I am not sure many other companies would have given that much notice.

I love mongoose games, and Matt Sprange is a nice guy

Cheers!

but the company is just run terribly and it's excuse after excuse after excuse as to why the games fail.

In my personal defence (!), while I have been around Mongoose from the beginning, I have been actually running the company for less than two and a half years. During that time, we have dropped no games (he said - I cannot recall any), brought Judge Dredd back front and centre, and are currently expanding Victory at Sea.

I don't think the "miniatures someone wants" approach is going to change much based on the KS project, judging by what Mr. Sprange posted today on Mongoose's forum. If I understood it correctly they are going be polling for opinions about stretch goal extras.

Why wouldn't we? Surely there is not an opinion that thinks gamers should not be asked what they want to see in a game? Very odd, when you think about it

Looks like most of the pledge levels are to pay full retail price to wait a few months to get stuff that's already available, just with free shipping.

I would venture free shipping is not an inconsequential thing. And we do not like to undercut retailers.

More importantly, there's no greens or concept art for any of the miniatures they plan to use the KS money for

There are for the initial models offered - the Lawmaster, Brit-Cit Judges and Walter, for example. For the others, we are commissioning right now, and hope to have a green or two ready to present before Kickstarter's end.

are releasing more stretch goals -- albeit piecemeal.

There is a reason for that First, having a long list of stretch goals felt a little... presumptuous to us. Second, it gives us a chance to listen to feedback and, if we see a good idea, make changes to the stretch goals. This has already had an effect - the Pat Wagons, for example, will have a choice of variants, covering the different ways the Justice Department uses them.

However, we are changing things so there will always be two stretch goals posted at any one time, so you get to see a least a little into the future.

What does "two complete forces" mean? Just a couple of gang boxes? And what sets are "already available" - the stuff in their webstore? Next, where new stuff has been unlocked by stretch goals, where is it and how exactly do you get hold of it?

We are updating this graphic (http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/pdf/ships/jdboximages.jpg) today, which will show clearly what is available and what complete forces are possible.

[Major_Gilbear]

He lives! Welcome to LAF Matt.  

I don't think the "miniatures someone wants" approach is going to change much based on the KS project, judging by what Mr. Sprange posted today on Mongoose's forum. If I understood it correctly they are going be polling for opinions about stretch goal extras.

Why wouldn't we? Surely there is not an opinion that thinks gamers should not be asked what they want to see in a game? Very odd, when you think about it

Well, there is a school of thought that just giving people what they ask for can lead to unbalanced forces or less popular factions not getting enough support.

I would also suggest that people like the feeling of security (justified or otherwise) that comes from knowing that there is a "Grand Plan" that will ensure fairness and balance across all factions as well as ongoing support for a particular game, and that new stuff was planned from the start so that it works properly and not just fudged in when there was an opportunity.

Looks like most of the pledge levels are to pay full retail price to wait a few months to get stuff that's already available, just with free shipping.

I would venture free shipping is not an inconsequential thing. And we do not like to undercut retailers.

Well, I recently placed an order with Mongoose, and the shipping caused me to raise an eyebrow! I will be very interested to see what the actual shipping costs are in comparison when the parcel arrives.

I do think that there ought to be a more sympathetic form of shipping for those people (like me) who just want a blister and are totally put off by the shipping costing more than the model.

Could it not be something like £0.75 per blister, £1.50 per box, with £1.50 minimum shipping and £10.00 maximum shipping? Or build shipping into the blister/box price, and offer discounts at orders over £50, £100, etc.? Whatever you do, there's got to be a better system!

Also, I cannot see how you'd be "undercutting retailers" since I couldn't find anyone else that stocked your Judge Dredd minis in the UK.

Anyway, I personally appreciate you taking the time to come here and answer all our questions - thank you.

I would also comment that there are some things I'd love to see from Mongoose in support of JDMG, but I'd rather not clog up this thread with all that unless I'm specifically asked to!  

[MongooseMatt]

He lives! Welcome to LAF Matt.  

Cheers! Been on the Internet miniatures gaming for years, and only just found out about this place! Good morning to you all.

Well, there is a school of thought that just giving people what they ask for can lead to unbalanced forces or less popular factions not getting enough support.

I would also suggest that people like the feeling of security (justified or otherwise) that comes from knowing that there is a "Grand Plan" that will ensure fairness and balance across all factions as well as ongoing support for a particular game, and that new stuff was planned from the start so that it works properly and not just fudged in when there was an opportunity.

Well, I can understand all that. On the unbalanced forces side of things, I think you have to trust the rules writers to cover that (I don't think many people have had issues with our actual games/mechanics in the past). As for Grand Plan... well, before Mongoose I worked with a certain very large games company, and I have seen how they work. Not sure 'Grand' Plans are common in this industry - more of a few concentrated ideas brought to fruition

I would venture free shipping is not an inconsequential thing. And we do not like to undercut retailers.Well, I recently placed an order with Mongoose, and the shipping caused me to raise an eyebrow! I will be very interested to see what the actual shipping costs are in comparison when the parcel arrives.

I do think that there ought to be a more sympathetic form of shipping for those people (like me) who just want a blister and are totally put off by the shipping costing more than the model.

Could it not be something like £0.75 per blister, £1.50 per box, with £1.50 minimum shipping and £10.00 maximum shipping? Or build shipping into the blister/box price, and offer discounts at orders over £50, £100, etc.? Whatever you do, there's got to be a better system!

Well, we do offer free shipping (US and UK) on large orders right now. Our current shipping system is based on books, which are heavy, but we are starting to revise things as miniatures take a greater proportion. Ideally, we would like to have a flat rate for everything, with free shipping above certain amounts. Our problem is always Australia - we want to ship a great deal down there, but shipping costs _hurt_.

Anyway, yes, you will see new shipping rates from us very soon.

Anyway, I personally appreciate you taking the time to come here and answer all our questions - thank you.

You are welcome! I am just as happy talking about games (or making games) as I am actually playing them!

I would also comment that there are some things I'd love to see from Mongoose in support of JDMG, but I'd rather not clog up this thread with all that unless I'm specifically asked to!  

You would be welcome to swing by our own forums, where that kind of thing is positively encouraged!

[Hat Guy]

Hey Matt, as stated above, I'm jumping keenly into your kickstarter to dodge the big shipping costs to Australia, which can often be as much again as a figure purchase 

I work in a franchise games store and we have a distribution network to the rest of the country, and it's still a big deal to get UK and US companies to supply us with enough stock. Privateer Press, Reaper and Wyrd are "big" enough to wear it, but some things that I could sell in numbers, like Zuzzy and Warlord aren't keen to offer us a wholesale price, partially because of the shipping problems.

Also, if Mongoose is keen to get more products into Australia, PM and maybe we can work something out. 

[MongooseMatt]

This will be quite a big update!

Thank you!
First of all, two more stretch goals have fallen, and we will now be seeing not only the Sov Invasion force make its way into Mega-City One, but they can now be opposed by some true defenders of the city - Psi-Judge Anderson, Judge DeMarco, Galen DeMarco PI, and the Simian Sam Spade, Travis Perkins! Our grateful thanks to all of you for that, it may have been a long, long time before those four characters came out without your help.

Pat Wagon
Sandrine, our 3D designer, has been hard at work, and we can now add the Mk III Pat Wagon as a new pledge (you will find it under the $40 Tek-Judge level). If you want to show perps you mean business but consider the Manta to be an overkill (it is possible), then this armoured Pat Wagon, complete with riot foam dispensers and street cannon, is just what you need.



If you have already pledged and are after a Pat Wagon, it is not a problem - simply add $40 to your existing pledge and we will be in contact after the Kickstarter ends to find out exactly what you were after.

We are also adding the Pat Wagon to the Wally Squad, Council of Judges and Chief Judge levels, so if you have pledged at one of these levels, you are getting one anyway!

New Stretch Goal - Demonic Cabal & Exorcist Judge
Next up, new stretch goals - as promised, we are posting two at a time now, so you can see what is coming up. First, is a new force, one I have been waiting for a long time to add to the game.. The Demonic Cabal! Featuring a Grand Warlock, his minions (probably unemployed citizens who just signed up out of boredom), and demons ready to cause mayhem, they will spend their time courting powers man was not meant to know. With a mixture of possession and true summoning, they will be able to bring terror to Mega-City One - if they can control the demons they call upon...

With all these demons and Dark Judges flying about the city, the Justice Department is going to need some psychic reinforcement - so we will also add the Exorcist Judge!

New Stretch Goal - Pat Wagon Variants
If, with your kind help, we pass that stretch goal, we have another treat lined up. The Mk III Pat Wagon is a widely used vehicle and many are specialised for certain roles - we will add three variants, including a Fire Wagon and (very) heavily armoured Riot Wagon (complete with People Plough!). We will also add the Mk IV Pat Wagon, an anti-grav design (you can see it in the Block Mania story).

If you have pledged at Tek-Judge level or any other that receives a Pat Wagon, you will be able to choose the variant you are after (Chief Judge level, of course, gets one of each). If you have several Tek-Judge pledges, you may want to pick them all up anyway!

You can read more about the Pat Wagon and see more pics at Planet Mongoose.

Block War - It Is Here!
We have just posted the first draft of the Block War supplement on our web site, and you can download it from our web site. It may seem a little short at the moment, but remember we are adding to it all the time, and it will be updated several times during this Kickstarter and beyond. However, we have already managed to pack in the force lists for the Brit-Cit Justice Department, Citi-Def, a preview of the Manta Prowl Tank, and more Mercenaries and weaponry!

Justice Department Set II
We will soon be posting a detailed 'poster' that shows you all the choices you have for box sets at the Rookie, Street and Wally Squad levels. By popular request, we will also be adding a Kickstarter-only Justice Department II set, which will feature all the current judges not in the first set.