!5mm Or 28mm?

[V]

For 20mm WW2 join here;

www.guildwargamers.com


No other size has the masses of options that 20mm and 1/72nd kits gives you. Virtually anything can be got from the norm (German Infantry) to the odd (I have a Royal Thai Army starting in 20mm).

We also have a few Canadian members on The Guild that may help with games or stockists.

[Will Bailie]

Hey Will,
Can you buy historical minis in Edmonton or do you order online?

Cheers,
Daniel

Depends what you are looking for.  Mission Fun and Games in St Albert has some things
http://www.missionfunandgames.com/

Woodrow's War Store is owned by an EWG club member, but is mail order only, and as the owner is moving to Calgary, we're not certain what will become of the shop.  I've just noticed a dead link for the website, toysoldiers.ca

For gaming shops in Alberta, you'll probably find the Sentry Box justifies the trek to Calgary:
sentrybox.ca

On the other hand, I've done quite well with mail order from all over the globe.  If you want someone else to manage the hassle of import duties, though, I recommend North Bay Games and Hobbies in Ontario
http://www.northbaygamesandhobbies.ca/

Hope that helps

Will

[Hummster]

One other advantage of 20mm plastics like Revell, Ceasar, etc is that they are often single piece castings, the hard plastic 15mm/20mm like the Plastic Soldier Company figures do often need a small amount of assembly and are less robust - easier to paint, though if soft plastics are given a coat of thinned PVA glue they will take paint reasonably well.

[blacksmith]

20 mm is soft plastic which I don't recommend. Plastic Soldier sells 15 mm rigid plastic soldiers and tanks dirty cheap.

[Driscoles]

I paint 20 mm plastic for years now and never had problems with paint cracking off.

1. Wash them in soap.
2. dry them
3. base them
4. undercoat them with primer from a spray can - if you do this prime them afterwards per hand with the colour of your choice.
5. let them dry
6. paint them
7. varnish them one or two times.
8. finish base.

well its always a matter of taste. I can recommend the scale because I am very pleased with 20 mm and I have plenty of choices for my armies for an affordable price.

[Captain_Hook]

You might try a company called Warlord games: http://www.warlordgames.com They do a line of plastic 28mm figures in boxed sets (considerably cheaper than the metal figures). If I play skirmish rules, I prefer the look of 28mm figures, and they might be easier for kids to handle, versus 15mm.
I haven't seen a whole lot of games played in 20mm scale. Most of the games I've played have been either 15mm or 28mm. 

[NTM]

20 mm is soft plastic which I don't recommend. Plastic Soldier sells 15 mm rigid plastic soldiers and tanks dirty cheap.

They also sell 20mm/1:72 (15mm is my preferred option though)

[Vonkluge]

Hi all,

I know this started out as discussion on scales but at it heart is the teaching about battles and history by using Wargames as a teaching instrument, this for me is something near and dear to my heart. Something that I have myself done and I think it bears touching on here a bit for all to read and think about. I have taken the liberty of printing here in public what was a private reply by Irishrover to my previous post. If Irshrover has a problem with this I will certainly delete it

Hey Bill,
 
This is Irishrover from Lead Adventures the one using wargames to
 teach world wars. I have a class of very visual and hands on student
 and I am mostly trying to help them visualize the battles and combat
 of the war using miniatures. I am using Disposable Heroes because
 Keith over at Iron Ivans was nice enough to donate the rules but I
 will look into CROSSFIRE. I am interested in the minis you do not want
 anymore, my principle thinks this is a great idea as long as the
 school does not need to fund it, so any help is welcome. Figure out
 the cost and I will get you a money order or paypal it or something.
Cheers,

 Daniel

My reply was this,

Hi Daniel,

Very interesting approach provided you do not impart to them that war is a game, clean, without sacrifice, where afterwards we put the troops away safe and sound to be brought out another day good as new. You must temper these lessons with the very harsh reality that some of these soldiers will be disfigured, suffer loss of limbs, and many will lose their lives and futures in those mad hours of battle. Those of us who chose this hobby need to remember that we make light of situations that in reality are horrible affairs. This was done for ages when war wascglamorized and the civilian population for the most part never saw the harsh realities of war because of the absence of media to show it to them. Vietnam was the first war that really showed the horror and the resulting backlash was enormous. I and my group know this and we are very conscious of having respect for those who lives and deaths we mimic on the battlefield. We learn tactics, strategies, uniforms, the why and where of battles, and much more, but we are careful to remember that we are not truly duplicating this on the game board.

So figure out what you little battles are to really teach them, or is it a way to just physically get them interested in history of the period. I think the idea is great but it must be tempered with the dark side in a school environment. Perhaps at the end of a game you as they put the figures away select a few and say "oh no, not them, they did not survive the battle!" then smash them with a hammer, burn them with a lighter, crush them with pliers! toss one out the window to simulate those whose emotional scars cause them to become lost and homeless and say "this is the reality of war some of them will never return to their friends, families, or the lives they left" I would suggest some sort of visual storyboard showing the dead, dieing, and destruction of war, the loved ones at home grieving for those who will not return, rows of amputees in their beds. Play out the landing at Omaha beach then show them the landing sequence in the movie "Saving Private Ryan". When the German Pak 75 fires out of ambush into the side of the US Sherman explain the effect of that round penetrating the tank. Do this and you will be teaching them valuable lessons of the horror of war as well as respect for those who have the guts to sacrifice everything to fight it for the rest of us.

I am not familiar with Disposable Heroes but It seems by its title to be one of the games that makes battles into a more fun super hero type affair? Not that I am against this or to put the rules down as I play many games just like that and love them, I just think you need a set that does not in any way glamorize war. CROSSFIRE is very good at simulating real tactics needed to move company size units across a battle field in the period you a dealing with. It is relatively simple and quick to both learn and play. I deal very nicely with the "10,000" foot general effect on the battlefield. It has a dedicated YAHOO group where questions about the game are answered by long time players very quickly. Perhaps I might get permission to copy a set and send them to you.

Ok now that being said good luck to you and any help I can provide I surly will. I will check today on what I might have to send you. I can also offer advice on this subject if you want a thick skull to bounce it off of. I have some experience with this as I was President of Historical Miniatures Gaming Society Pacific SouthWest for the last 3 years and we did many public presentations as well as in school demonstrations. We were always careful to leave them with a sense of the sacrifice others had made for the convictions they held.

Please forgive me for putting this up on the public post but I felt it belonged here instead of in a Private post.

Sincerely,

Bill Witthans

[fastolfrus]

Sadly I don't have a club yet, Though I am putting adds and stuck out to find other gamers. The thing is I am rather far north in Alberta, Canada. I am teaching my grade 7 class to play Disposable hero to help learn about World War 2.  I am thinking 15mm might be the best option because it is pricey to go with the 28 and have enough for all the kids.

We run a school club in Scarborough, North Yorkshire.
For WWII we use PBI from Peter Pig. Uses a squared board so we have no arguments about measuring or who's in cover who isn't. Club ages range from 10-17 years old. We even did the Arnhem campaign a couple of years ago:
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=11923.0
This summer we did Queenston Heights 1812.
PM if you want any details.

[khartoum2]

Not going to say re choice of 15mm, 20mm and 28mm as this is covered by the other replies.  I have though just starte to put together a 15mm force on a bit of a budget.  This means I am avoiding FOW to a certain extent as the cost of them is a bit ont he high side. 

I have so far bought some palstic soldier company vehicles which have gone together really nice and look good.  Also have some Zvedzva snap kits which do not have the same detail but are quick and easy to build (although some need to be glued in places)

In addition I bought the FOW open Fire Starter set as it seemed very good value as I got it at a good price.  Have put together the Stugs and 1st of the Shermans - Not keen on the way the vehicles look feel adn go together.  Figure wise I originally bought some Wargames Factory figures and this was supplemented with the Open fire figures.  The two don't really go together at all though.  I think the Wargames Factory figures are probably closest to pure scale however the detail is very fine and some of the barrels are likely to bend as they are so thin.  The FOW figures are far more bulky but they hold together better, have more interesting poses and the detail is easier to pick out.  The FOW bases are far nicer too.  The Warganes Factory figures though do include mortars.

Hope this helps

[Irishrover13]

Hi Bill,
I am taking it a step farther then just the violence of war. My class
is made up of Cree First Native student and over 50% of them have
family (Great uncles/aunts or Grandparents)  that fought in the Second
world war and suffered due to actions made by the Canadian government
post war. We are still researching their units but I might try to use
their combats as my starting point and they will "step into the shoes
of their relatives" I also have one girl who's Grandfather is a
veteran of the war. He is coming in and he thinks this idea might
work. He is going to walk the students through one of the firefights
he was in in Europe using the army men if possible. I am also trying
this as a why to get the students interested in history. Unfortunately
many of my students seem to think the war is like the computer games
and I want them to expand their scope of understanding. I also want
them reading more and the math based skills are a plus.
.As for "disposable heroes" the title is based on a quote made by a
American General. The rules are pretty intuitive with the men
representing 1 person each and the rules assuming they are smarter
then you. They are considered to be consistently moving and shifting
rather then static like in many minis games. The designer Keith also
puts is very little fluff in the books though with the little he does,
he covers the army and the the suffering on all sides and the horrors
of war. The scale is also good being platoon level with a average of
about 40-50 soldiers and a hand full of vehicles on the table for a
small game. He also sent me a squad based skirmish set of rule that
can be played with as little as little as 10 soldiers a side. I looked
for Crossfire but the rules are out print and I have had no luck yet I
will likely pick them up if I find them. I will get back to you on the
battles, though we are hopefully going to finish the family tracing
before the holidays and the we will fight the battles after the
holidays.

Cheers,
Daniel