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Author Topic: 1st Lebanon War 1982  (Read 2784 times)

Offline Mjolnir

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1st Lebanon War 1982
« on: December 07, 2012, 05:22:24 PM »
I would like to start a new project (15mm) using the Force On Force Rules
Has anyone the TO&E for :
PLO
Phalangist forces
Druze forces
Hezbollah
Lebanon Army
South Lebanon Army
IDF
Thx

Offline itchy

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 686
Re: 1st Lebanon War 1982
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2012, 11:28:39 PM »
lots of info here http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AIW-Wargaming/?yguid=185532224   and some on the Ambush Alley forum  but all the units especially the IDF seemed a bit ad hoc in the unit sizes for FOF . Its something ive been building up myself for years now and always get diverted away from it , good luck .

Offline itchy

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Re: 1st Lebanon War 1982
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2012, 11:33:18 PM »
forgot this one http://lebanon82.tripod.com/ 

Offline Mjolnir

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Re: 1st Lebanon War 1982
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2012, 10:13:46 AM »
lots of info here http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AIW-Wargaming/?yguid=185532224   and some on the Ambush Alley forum  but all the units especially the IDF seemed a bit ad hoc in the unit sizes for FOF . Its something ive been building up myself for years now and always get diverted away from it , good luck .
Thx a lot
I used to play the Lebanon War with 6mm miniatures but I sold them

Offline itchy

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Re: 1st Lebanon War 1982
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2012, 11:47:50 AM »
yes I used to have 6mm and sold them a long time ago at the moment I have bits from peter pig in 15mm and odds in 20mm as well .

Offline Hildred Castaigne

  • Scientist
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Re: 1st Lebanon War 1982
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2012, 01:09:31 PM »
Has anyone the TO&E for :
Phalangist forces
Hezbollah
Lebanon Army
South Lebanon Army
I'll have to echo what has already been said about everything being pretty ad hoc.

The South Lebanese Army was just an umbrella group of Christian militia groups.
Like all armies in Lebanon at the time, they weren't professional soldiers and could not take TOEs very seriously.

Forget about Hezbollah, they only emerged as a force in 1985.
Amal were the main resistance to the IDF and the SLA down south.
They came before Hezbollah and were far more important from 1982-85.
The Lebanese Army were established the USA, so maybe follow US unit organisation?

Offline Arlequín

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Re: 1st Lebanon War 1982
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2012, 02:49:39 PM »
I'll pretty much echo what everyone else has said, while there might be an 'official' TO&E, the actuality in the field would be very different. As far as the Israeli's go, this wasn't helped by each man in a section having essentially two roles, which sometimes confuses the squad structure.

The Israelis have never been slaves to doctrine and while they had a squad leader running three fire teams in theory, in some units, each of three men, centred on 'a weapon' (1-2 MAG, 1 RPG per squad), leave and casualties might (but not always) force the squad leader to go for just two teams. Besides the fire team's main weapon, there were also additional ones, like the M203 launcher, or the M21 (supposedly one per platoon) might be swapped in for a rifle. A few M72 LAW and rifle grenades were usually also carried.  

Platoons were three squads strong, with (as I understand it anyway) a Platoon HQ team, plus an ATGW team of 3, a 52mm mortar team of 2 and a sniper, rounding out the squad, but again various factors might result in personnel being put into the squads to make numbers up and of course the ATGWs didn't get much use anyway, except in the Bekaa Valley.
 
Most other groups used a two-fire team squad, with between three and five men in it and centred upon 'a weapon' (LMG or RPG etc). The numbers depended on who was about/available/alive. For the Lebanese and Palestinians, there was a degree of 'machismo' about weapons and where possible, any self respecting guy would have a couple, even guys with PK or other LMGs might also carry an AK and naturally an RPG guy would have his own personal weapon too.

The Lebanese Army pretty much ceased to function from the '76 Civil War onwards, as far as I know, with its members leaving to join the respective Christian militias or the LNM. The Israelis trained and equipped both the Lebanese Forces Militia and the South Lebanon Army, so they are likely to have followed a simplified Israeli pattern.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2012, 02:51:12 PM by Arlequín »

Offline Hildred Castaigne

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 428
Re: 1st Lebanon War 1982
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2012, 02:56:14 PM »
The Lebanese Army pretty much ceased to function from the '76 Civil War onwards, as far as I know, with its members leaving to join the respective Christian militias or the LNM. The Israelis trained and equipped both the Lebanese Forces Militia and the South Lebanon Army, so they are likely to have followed a simplified Israeli pattern.
Did the SLA function like a home guard unit?
With units made up of locals and stationed aroud their town or village.

Offline Mjolnir

  • Librarian
  • Posts: 142
Re: 1st Lebanon War 1982
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2012, 03:53:08 PM »
yes I used to have 6mm and sold them a long time ago at the moment I have bits from peter pig in 15mm and odds in 20mm as well .
Most of my miniatures are Peter Pig and so again for my next project :)

Offline Mjolnir

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  • Posts: 142
Re: 1st Lebanon War 1982
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2012, 03:55:54 PM »
The South Lebanese Army was just an umbrella group of Christian militia groups.
Like all armies in Lebanon at the time, they weren't professional soldiers and could not take TOEs very seriously.

Forget about Hezbollah, they only emerged as a force in 1985.
Amal were the main resistance to the IDF and the SLA down south.
They came before Hezbollah and were far more important from 1982-85.
The Lebanese Army were established the USA, so maybe follow US unit organisation?
[/quote]

Thx
I'll buy a mix of miniatures (Peter pig) and make ad hoc units ;)

Offline Mjolnir

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  • Posts: 142
Re: 1st Lebanon War 1982
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2012, 03:59:07 PM »
I'll pretty much echo what everyone else has said, while there might be an 'official' TO&E, the actuality in the field would be very different. As far as the Israeli's go, this wasn't helped by each man in a section having essentially two roles, which sometimes confuses the squad structure.

Thx, i'll buy a lot of miniatures, APC and tanks and make ad hoc units

Offline Arlequín

  • Galactic Brain
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  • Culpame de la Bossa Nova...
Re: 1st Lebanon War 1982
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2012, 02:29:34 PM »
Did the SLA function like a home guard unit?
With units made up of locals and stationed aroud their town or village.

They began as part of the Free Lebanon Army, but split off under Maj. Haddad, who declared southern Lebanon independent. His forces were a mix of former regulars of the Lebanese Army and local recruits. In 1982, we're talking 2 reinforced Brigades (5,000 men) of troops, constantly under arms and receiving pay from the SLA regime, so effectively they'd be regulars, despite being referred to as a 'militia'.

From what I can gather, they weren't made up of locals in the sense we might understand it, the bulk of their troops came from the Christian areas of Metulla, Marjayoun and other towns. While the SLA contained Christians, Shi'a and Druze within its ranks, it was predominantly Christian in its command structure. The bulk of the population of the area are Shiite however.

I would imagine that there was some form of local defence mechanism associated with the SLA itself, but I have no idea of how it might operate or be composed.

There's quite a good Wikipedia article on them, with some links, but you'll have to filter them for 'bias'.

 :)
 

Offline Arlequín

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  • Posts: 6218
  • Culpame de la Bossa Nova...
Re: 1st Lebanon War 1982
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2012, 02:45:09 PM »
Thx, i'll buy a lot of miniatures, APC and tanks and make ad hoc units

It's what I'd do at any rate... most forces have their roots in either the Soviet or American style organisation patterns, so as long as you use them as a template, with some modifications for losses, lack of spare parts and other factors, I don't think you'll be far off the reality, as opposed to the ideal.

 

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