Start of my VBCW Ground Forces: Updated June 9th

[commissarmoody]

And I am not sure if the bren gun had been issued at that point either.

They started to issue the Bren gun in 1935

[Rob_bresnen]

While it is true about the sten gun, and I don't use them myself for my VBCW force, I don't think most people who play VBCW worry too much about that detail. Lots of sten guns grace many a VBCW army- its a mater of taste.

[joekano]

Yeah, I would have preferred Thompsons, but all the packs I found locally had the Stens. They also show up in some of the other pulp/WWII packs I’ll be using, like the resistance fighters that will join my local militias. If this was a historical force I’d be a bit pickier, but since VBCW is a fictional timeline I’m willing to go with it and just allow weapons development to be a bit quicker in this world. It saves on headaches when searching for figures.

Chris

[pocoloco]

Many thanks for the entry about the buildings, they look stunning. Great work and I think they have scaled up rather nicely.

[Arlequín]

Joroas and Arlequin, thanks for the info on the police unforms.  I'm planning to set my battles in the Scottish Borders, which is why I added the tartan.  I wasn't sure how quickly it spread south, so do you think I'm ok for this time period?  I also wasn't sure what the arm band war for (in the period photos I've seen it didn't always appear), so I'm glad to finally know.  Would it have only been worn by the officers in charge, or all constables on duty?

I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have seen a chequered band on caps South of the Border before the 1970's. I'm also uncertain about how quickly it spread within Scotland itself, although it was noted as being 'peculiarly Scottish' before its general introduction.

You can always have a contingent of the GCP as a distinct unit though. At this time only 'officers' (inspectors and above) and troops on 'mounted duty' (including car drivers) would wear caps though, everyone else (including passengers in vehicles), wore helmets.

The arm band goes back to the days when police officers were allowed to wear their uniforms off-duty and only those 'on-duty' would wear the band. It eventually became an affectation, like the whistle and chain did after the introduction of personal radios. Bands I've seen are a very dark blue, as opposed to the 'almost-black' blue of the uniform. This might be 'fading' due to time or cheap dye, but does give a slight difference in colour to exploit when painting.

All police buttons, badges etc., were silver for the vast majority of forces. There were special 'night' versions of these, which were a dull matt black, and officers were routinely issued duplicate items with these for night duty (or at least the buttons and badges, which were detachable anyway).

While it is true about the sten gun, and I don't use them myself for my VBCW force, I don't think most people who play VBCW worry too much about that detail. Lots of sten guns grace many a VBCW army- its a mater of taste.

I find it odd that people can be so pedantic over such little things. They will fight a war that never happened, but argue over something being used before a specific date in spite of that.

Battledress, Boys AT Rifles and Stens are all actually outside of VBCW if you're being strict about it, but the former two were issued from 1938 (there were shortages well into 1940 for both though). Even the M1 Thompson is wrong for 1938... the fore-grip and drum-mag M1928 is the 'correct' (and only) one, as the M1 was designed in 1942, in response to British feedback from 1940 onwards.

The Sten, while not exactly being knocked up in a garden shed, as the myth states, was a simple design created in an emergency... a situation which could be replicated a couple of years earlier by the same guy, or someone with a similar background... it isn't a V2 rocket after all.

I doubt it would be a 9mm weapon (.38 is more likely maybe), but essentially it would be the same... or somewhere towards the more luxurious 'Lanchester', which was a direct copy of the MP28.

I always thought VBCW was about the 'feel' of the 1930s...  

[joroas]

There are times when I feel bad about being picky, but often this leads to a lot of very interesting discussion, as here.   

I agree about the weapons, it is difficult, even in WWII to be that picky.  Early war troops dressed and carried wildly different kit to later war ones.  Everyone who has Foundry's Dads' Army figures uses them throughout the war, but they would not have been armed or uniformed like this if Operation Sealion had occured in 1940! Few ACW gamers have 1861 armies, for example.

If it looks right, unless you have a specific action in mind, then it will serve its purpose.

You have made a cracking start on this by the way. 

[jp1885]

In the VBCW universe there has been mention of a 'Brum Gun' - an SMG (and Sten lookalike) that's been knocked up in the arms factories of the Midlands.
You could always say that the Bren is a Czech ZB vz. 26 

[Plynkes]

I find it odd that people can be so pedantic over such little things...

...I always thought VBCW was about the 'feel' of the 1930s...  

I think you just answered your own question there. Fill it with things from the 1940s and it won't have the feel of the 1930s any more. 


As a side note, has anybody made any Mitford sisters figures yet? They would seem to me to be such obvious players in this (you could have one of them on your side whichever side you are on, pretty much), and their absence is more jarring than any number of Sten Guns. Perhaps it has been done and I just haven't noticed it. I don't follow the dedicated forums, I only see what happens here.

[joroas]

Partizan show gave a free model of Wallis Simpson out that might be usable......

[Arlequín]

Everyone who has Foundry's Dads' Army figures uses them throughout the war, but they would not have been armed or uniformed like this if Operation Sealion had occured in 1940!

Indeed, even the Musketeer VBCW 'militia' figures are well-equipped in comparison to the Home Guard/LDV of 1940. British 'tank units' had 40 Vickers Mediums to share between them, besides various marks of light tanks and whatever cruisers and Matildas rolled off the production lines that year. Many of them had to make do with various light machine guns mounted on light trucks.

There are better equipped VBCW forces out there than existed in Britain after Dunkirk.  

In the VBCW universe there has been mention of a 'Brum Gun' - an SMG (and Sten lookalike) that's been knocked up in the arms factories of the Midlands.

Yes... sorry, that was me, along with 'Brummagem bullets', which were purposely short on propellant to maximise profits (receipts required for any refunds).

I think you just answered your own question there. Fill it with things from the 1940s and it won't have the feel of the 1930s any more.

That's been a constant problem throughout its life... someone will always come along and want to incorporate something (usually a German expeditionary force, panzers, or something like that) which doesn't 'fit' (in the opinion of some) and when you're dealing with a fiction you can't really draw the line, while preserving the 'free and easy' aspect which is apparently the appeal.

If I was 'doing VBCW' I'd want to cut things off at about 1936, as regards equipment and everything, but then you would really struggle to find suitable figures and models. Drawing a sort of line at late 1940 is far more sensible and appears to suit most people.

As a side note, has anybody made any Mitford sisters figures yet? They would seem to me to be such obvious players in this (you could have one of them on your side whichever side you are on, pretty much), and their absence is more jarring than any number of Sten Guns. Perhaps it has been done and I just haven't noticed it. I don't follow the dedicated forums, I only see what happens here.

It's been a case of 'names have been changed to protect the dodgy', as the real-world descendants of folk around back then are inclined to take action against anyone besmirching their mostly-fascist forebears. Hence the crap names used in most of the books.

[Tym]

The main thing that I have put into my VBCW is does it look right / OK.   Its all down to personnal taste.  The rules (Which ever you choose), even more so the event cards are the real key to VBCW and making it the fun it is.  There is alot of personnel freedom in VBCW which again is the main attraction.  I would recommend the VBCW forum for those that want to explore,  Just remember the mantra "Its your VBCW, enjoy it"     I do!

http://vbcf.freeforums.org/index.php?sid=9a84f0c534997e501219aff89151c5b4

[Plynkes]

Odd, I didn't think you could libel the dead in the UK. And to be libel a deflamatory statement has to be false. Calling Diana and Unity Mitford fascists would therefore not be libel even if they were alive. 

Oh well. Shame really. Diana and Unity posing in blackshirt garb, and Jessica raising the red flag at the barricades would make great figures. I suppose you could have Nancy as a war correspondent too.



Another problem with this being set in 30s: You can't have a little baby Max, clutching his signed portrait of Hitler. He's strictly 40s, like the Sten Guns, Tillys and Lanchesters.  

[Arlequín]

Odd, I didn't think you could libel the dead in the UK. And to be libel a deflamatory statement has to be false. Calling Diana and Unity Mitford fascists would therefore not be libel even if they were alive.  

Calling them fascists/communists, whatever isn't a problem, it's having them do things which they obviously didn't do in real life. While there might be little chance of huge damages and such like, having to employ a solicitor or whatever, just to have a case thrown out, would make it costly in itself. Far easier to just invent people.

Another problem with this being set in 30s: You can't have a little baby Max, clutching his signed portrait of Hitler. He's strictly 40s, like the Sten Guns, Tillys and Lanchesters.  

When you change history, even small changes, you potentially alter everything (or conceivably not). Obviously you can't envisage them with any great accuracy and even real events often hinged on a choice, which itself could have gone either way. Expediency was the driver of the Sten, Tilly and Lanchester... Max is a different matter of course.

A Sten-like weapon, a Tilly or a Lanchester (or even Max), are all quite achievable/believable a mere couple of years earlier if there was a need (or the money) for them, although I doubt that the Lanchester would have been developed at all if its original 'model' could have been imported. Motorised army transport was an ongoing need and was mostly based on existing civilian models, so no big leap there.

Other weapons/items are different. If Germany was seen as a 'friendly' power by a sympathetic government, there would be no push to re-arm, so designs could be cancelled or put back. The Matilda II, the various Cruisers, the Spitfire and other items, may very well have fallen by the wayside before the Civil War even broke out. Alternatively France might have been conceived as the 'new' threat.

There may have been a few voices then, as now, pushing for more equipment designed for 'counter-insurgency' and mobility, as opposed to that for a conventional war. The mechanisation of the cavalry might have been halted and the re-organisation of the army suspended and the same focus placed on the need for a 'policing' role within the UK, as had been the case in the Empire after the Great War.


But anyway... people use VBCW to suit their need for something they can't find elsewhere, whether it's the Spanish Civil War, the early part of WW2, Sealion, or whatever. Some go 'in deep', others field what they like, but the important thing is that folk are painting and playing it and largely without others telling them what they can and can't do. I like that!

 

Edited: So it doesn't read like I was being critical of Plynkes's quote. 

[Rob_bresnen]

People use VBCW to suit their need for something they can't find elsewhere, whether it's the Spanish Civil War, the early part of WW2, Sealion, or whatever. Some go 'in deep', others field what they like, but the important thing is that folk are painting and playing it and largely without others telling them what they can and can't do. I like that!

Right.

[joroas]

People use VBCW to suit their need for something they can't find elsewhere, whether it's the Spanish Civil War, the early part of WW2, Sealion, or whatever. Some go 'in deep', others field what they like, but the important thing is that folk are painting and playing it and largely without others telling them what they can and can't do. I like that!


Right.

Absolutely, there is no doubt that this has really touched a few creative butons...................