SAGA or DUX? Which would be best for Fantasy warbands?

[Mason]

Maybe an odd question for the Medieval board, but you guys are the experts and I figure some of you must play both or at least have an opinion.

I intend to build a fantasy army or two given time, but would like to use them as skirmish forces first as they grow. An Oldhammer army will take longer to put together, so why not get to use it before it is finished?
Also, if I dont use it, I may lose the interest and it may never get finished.

So, the question is: What are the main differences between the two systems?

These are the first systems that come to mind due to their popularity at the moment, and the battle boards for Dark Ages forces should work well for my needs, in theory.

Alternatively, would you recomend any other systems for gaming at skirmish level?

[LeadAsbestos]

I'd go SAGA myself. All those different boards lend themselves towards adapting to any given army really. Dux looks like fun, but the system for actually battling seems pretty straight forward.

Song of Blades and Heroes is my go-to fantasy system for a small skirmish. Great fun, easy, endlessly adaptable, not terribly serious.

[Timbor]

I have played a couple games of Saga, and have read the Dux rules.  SAGA would be my first choice for a fantasy skirmish.  There are already 12 different faction playstyles to choose from (vs 2 for Dux) and there are 3 more being released soon.  SAGA is pretty quick and easy to learn in-game.

I am not sure if/how you could work out magic, other than perhaps attributing battle board bonuses to magic, but there's not much of a way to have a focused magic user in the core rules.  I am sure there is some indy rules out there somewhere though.  If you are just looking for melee and shooting, it should work just fine!

[Mason]

Thanks, Chaps!

LeadAsbestos: I am probably thinking warbands more of the size of SAGA forces than SoBH (I believe that is aimed at smaller skirmishes, but forgive me if I am wrong  ), so SAGA seems to make sense to me.
I have read some articles concerning the battle boards and thought that they would be adaptable, so thanks for confirming that.

Timbor: It is good to hear from someone familiar with both systems. That seems a good choice of factions, so something should be appropriate for most forces.
As for magic, I had LotR and Gemmell's Drenai tales in mind for the forces, so fireballs and suchlike would not be too common unlike other fantasy worlds, so that should work just fine.

I hear DUX is very good for campaign games, but am not sure that is where this would go, so that may be wasted on me.

Hmmm....SAGA is starting to very much look like the right choice for my needs.
 




One other question: Do all forces in SAGA have access to cavalry, or are there certain forces geared towards that?

(Thinking of Rohirrim and Nadir here).

[stroblight]

Normans, Bretons, and Strathclyde Welsh are all geared towards cavalry.  Since the categories of troops in SAGA are pretty broad (Hearthguard, Warriors, and Levy) and weapon types are pretty broad (only bows, javelins, two-handed weapons, etc. need to be distinguishable), I think the rules will adapt well to a fantasy crossover.  Keep us posted on what you decide and any progress.

[Timbor]

Some other factions can have cavalry, but it might be restricted to the elites/hearthguard only (Irish come to mind).

Just a disclaimer I never played Dux B, I just have the rules.  Im pretty much the only dark ages historical player I have found in my area, so I only game with my own armies when I can convince friends to try things out (for now, at least!)

I don't see why you could not use SAGA rules for battles, and then Dux B rules for a campaign... it probably would not be that hard to crossover as they are different parts of the game, mostly.  Of course, you would need both rulesets for that...

[Mason]

Normans, Bretons, and Strathclyde Welsh are all geared towards cavalry.  Since the categories of troops in SAGA are pretty broad (Hearthguard, Warriors, and Levy) and weapon types are pretty broad (only bows, javelins, two-handed weapons, etc. need to be distinguishable), I think the rules will adapt well to a fantasy crossover.  Keep us posted on what you decide and any progress.

Thanks for the input, stroblight, much appreciated!
I will keep you posted, but it will probably be in the Fantasy board as it will involve the building and painting of any forces first.
Maybe a short post here to notify any players of the presence of the thread would be acceptable...

I don't see why you could not use SAGA rules for battles, and then Dux B rules for a campaign... it probably would not be that hard to crossover as they are different parts of the game, mostly.  Of course, you would need both rulesets for that...

Disclaimer noted, Timbor. 
The idea of mixing the two could be an option if we wanted to go down that route.
I say 'we', but I could be alone in this venture myself.
That has happened to me before.
 

[Mason]

I am sure there is some indy rules out there somewhere though. 

Not for magic, but Mordor!
 

By the man himself: Frank!

http://tabletopdeutschland.wordpress.com/2012/06/06/saga-der-herr-der-ringe-armeeliste-mordor/

Unfortunately for me, his blog is in German, and my school memories of German just wont crack it, but the Battle Board is in English.
Cheers, Frank!
 

[Vermis]

Er, which Dux?

[Mason]

Er, which Dux?

The Romano-British Vs Saxon one.

[Lowtardog]

What avbout those foundry rules that came out recently

[Atheling]

What avbout those foundry rules that came out recently

 

Darrell.

[Mason]

What avbout those foundry rules that came out recently

Not aware of these.
As I said, was looking at Dux or SAGA due to their recent popularity.
Will have to make some enquiries.
Thanks, mate.
 

[sukhe_bator]

Has anyone here heard of and tried HAVOC? From my reading of the rules this could be a strong contender and needs no adaptation for either fantasy or historical skirmish games

[Mister Rab]

I've heard of HAVOC, and it looks pretty good, particularly with some of its dice pool mechanics which sound like they might introduce a good bit of tactical play. LAF's own Thantsants has some good stuff including and AAR on his blog, here.

Mason, I tried to find a pseudo-historical large skirmish set for high-medieval fantasy recently and was surprised by how few sets were out there that weren't tied to a very specific background (eg Fanticide). I wanted a game that would allow me about thirty figures a side (maybe rising to fifty as I get some painting done  ), with some heroes and a touch of magic - much like it sounds you're after!

Although I may yet go for Dux Brittaniarum or SAGA, I've been inspired by Pat Smith's excellent looking War of the Roses adaptation for Sharp Practice (which I already own) and am pondering away at fantasticalising it (good to do some geeking while all my gaming stuff is in boxes following the house move last week, and is likely to remain so for a good while yet  ).