Rubicon Vietnam range - noob query

[eddieazrael]

Hi All - so with the upcoming Nam 68 ruleset driving my interest, I'm thinking about required figures.  At which point I admit to knowing next to nothing about US military kit in Vietnam.  I see Rubicon do boxes of both US Army and USMC, but tbh apart from differences in weapon loadouts, I can't really tell the difference with the raw plastic (I know USMC wore ERDL, which is painting.) On doing some googling, I've a vague notion that gear between the two services started out unique, but became more and more standardised as time progressed.   However, I do actually like my little men to look like what they are supposed to represent.   So, my question is, for the 1968 timeframe, are either of these sets interchangeable between these two (allowing for painting them differently) - could they be mixed/matched or substituted, or are they very much different in clearly defined ways I am yet to discover?

Many thanks in advance to anyone who is more knowledgeable than me!

[carlos marighela]

In the USMC box all the figures are wearing M1951 flak jackets (body armour).  The US Army figures are not in flak jackets, which is more typical of the Army in Vietnam. The Army did wear body armour at time s but it was of a different pattern. How much that matters to you is your call.

IIRC the USMC box has the requisite bits for the distinctive USMC's M1961 webbing as well as bits for the M1956 army webbing that became prevalent in the latter part of the war. The Army box has M1956/M1967 webbing.

I recently picked up the US Army box, primarily for kit bashing and bits. It's biggest drawback is that there are no M60 machineguns in it so even if you bought two boxes to make up a paper strength platoon you would still be missing the machineguns. Rubicon are nothing if not quirky when it comes to box contents.

I'm happy enough with my purchase. Combined with some of the NVA bits and some spare G3s and FALs I have floating around, I'll soon enough have a squad or two of Salvadorean FMLN guerillas. 

[CapnJim]

I'm happy enough with my purchase. Combined with some of the NVA bits and some spare G3s and FALs I have floating around, I'll soon enough have a squad or two of Salvadorean FMLN guerillas. 

Dang it, Carlos.  Now I have to steal that idea.....

And in reference to the OP, I echo Carlos' statements....

[eddieazrael]

great - thanks both for the responses.  I seem to have also found myself going down an internet rabbit hole of which versions of the UH1 were gunships or not (I seem to have come across strong opinion that in Vietnam the gunships were all UH1Cs, not D or H) which is now making me re-assess whether that a) matters and b)if anyone does the appropriate version in 1/56th?.   As the rules themselves I'm basing these questions on aren't yet out I guess I have some time to ponder, but an casing eyes at 1/72 and 1/100 options....

[carlos marighela]

great - thanks both for the responses.  I seem to have also found myself going down an internet rabbit hole of which versions of the UH1 were gunships or not (I seem to have come across strong opinion that in Vietnam the gunships were all UH1Cs, not D or H) which is now making me re-assess whether that a) matters and b)if anyone does the appropriate version in 1/56th?.   As the rules themselves I'm basing these questions on aren't yet out I guess I have some time to ponder, but an casing eyes at 1/72 and 1/100 options....

UH-1 Gunships in Vietnam were primarily UH-1B and UH-1C models, the UH-1C being essentially a dedicated guns version. The Marines had the UH-1E, which was essentially a UH-1C built for a saltwater environment and externally pretty much indistinguishable from the C model.

The USAF had the UH-1F, which is a B model with the arse end of a D model and a few got the guns treatment as UH-1Ps.  There were a few UH-1Ms floating around , which were basically C models re-engined with the donk from an H model.

To be the best of my knowledge nobody used the D model as a dedicated gunship and the only people to use the UH-1H as a gunship in Vietnam was the RAAF with their Bushrangers.

Rubicon are kind enough to include RAAF decals, even the specific ones for the Bushrangers (they could be readily converted from guns back to slicks) but don't provide the correct weapons fit and mounts. You really need the 7 round 2.75" rocket packs and twin M-60s for the door gunners. RAAF 9 Squadron were the most heavily armed version gunships in Vietnam and soldiered on for decades afterwards.

https://raafansw.org.au/docPDF/TBS_FirstEdition_Rev2021_4.pdf

That said I bought the Rubicon model specifically to build a Bushranger, so with a bit of work and some scavenging of bits, I'll get there eventually. Fingers crossed.

Rubicon produce the only 1/56 Huey in plastic that I'm aware of. There may be 3D prints. For that reason most people use 1/48 choppers. There's a really cheap Hobby Boss 1/48 UH-1C Easy Build kit out there and I have a couple in my collection, it's got a couple of very minor faults detail wise but it looks the job.  A much simpler kit than the Rubicon model and it almost builds itself, it's so well engineered. The only drawbacks are that it is:

a) Lacking crew. Cue the Empress, Gringo 40  or TAG helicopter crew.

b) Lacking weapons fit and mounts.

In the case of the latter ICM make a great little selection of aviation ordnance, which at least gives you the rocket pods. Alas, you'll need to source the gun armament and mods from aftermarket sources, which means the cheap Hobby Boss kit isn't that cheap by the time you've made a gunship.

You can still find the old Monogram/ Revell UH-1B 1/48 UH-1B gunship but it has issues in terms of accuracy and worse issues in terms of build. Awful parts fit and warping due to the age of the moulds.  If you can find one cheap it can be a donor source of weapons for the Hobby Boss model. Only try building it if you enjoy a challenge and don't have easily triggered anger issues.

You can use the Hobby Boss model as a slick version of the marines' UH-1E.  Technically speaking you need to add a roof mounted winch but that's an easy job or you could just omit it. I made one with scrap plastic. They did see use, primarily as command and control choppers but if you want a slick option for your marines you are better off using the New Ray diecast CH-46. The CH-46 was the primary lift helo for the Marines from about 1967 onwards and the new ray version is 1/55 which is a closer match. Just needs repainting.

https://www.amazon.com/New-Ray-Sky-Pilot-Vehicles/dp/B0051TXYSU

New Ray also do a 1/60 model of the US Army CH-47 Chinook if you want heavy lift for the US Army. 

https://www.amazon.com/New-Ray-Boeing-CH-47-Chinook/dp/B002ABR5SW/ref=sr_1_1?crid=AJ4YSFKEYTWH&keywords=CH-47&qid=1697053693&sprefix=ch-47%2Caps%2C429&sr=8-1

I've got the C-46, and a couple of the the Hobby Boss Hueys painted up as a  USMC UH-1E and an ersatz RAAF UH-1B. If you want I can drag them out later and take some happy snaps.

Hope that helps.

[SJWi]

Eddieazrael, whilst I love 28mm figures I've settled on 15mm for my Vietnam "skirmish" scale, and have bought some of the re-released Battlefront 'Nam figures. Like you I'm waiting for "Nam '68" but have been now for nearly 2 years. Do you have any news on the release date? 

[eddieazrael]

Pics would be great, thanks.  I wonder if there would be any mileage in asking Rubicon if they would be interested in making a conversion kit to mod the D to a C version?  As they already have all the weapons, but need a shortened body.  From what I can tell, it would fill a rather large void in the market, of Vietnam Hueys that actually have the correct weapons fit, rather than what Hollywood movies and generations of model kit manufacturers made them carry!

[carlos marighela]

It would be a fairly substantial 'conversion' requiring about 75% of the fuselage to be replaced as well as new rotor blades.  The Rubicon kit features a detailed interior so it would be a major undertaking. Might as well ask for a wholly new kit.

There were H type bodies used as gunships post Vietnam so Rubicon can always claim their kit allows for historical gunship versions* but how large the market is for the helicopters of El Salvador's FAS is anyone's guess.  In reality and as with a few of their products, it owes more to the Hollywood and 'looks cool' school of thought.

I'll dig out the choppers and take some snaps.


* It doesn't quite have the fit even for the FAS version.

[carlos marighela]

By the way, I totally forgot. There is a 1/48 Corgi Diecast UH-1 C diecast gunship, available in various versions . It ain't cheap though.

[CapnJim]

By the way, I totally forgot. There is a 1/48 Corgi Diecast UH-1 C diecast gunship, available in various versions . It ain't cheap though.

Yeah - my local hobby shop has a few of these in stock.  Not cheap is right... 

[eddieazrael]

Sorry, have to say no news on Nam 68 since I saw Piers posted a draft (I assume) cover back last September.   I have to admit, I don't understand their marketing strategy - eventually everyone interested will have either given up or died of old age!

[carlos marighela]

But their children will heed their parents' dying words "Make sure you play a game of Nam 68....aggh"

[carlos marighela]

OK the various helis I was talking about. All posed with some Empress USMC for scaling.

1. 1/48 Hobby Boss UH-1E (UH-1C model)

2.  1/48 Hobby Boss UH-1 C masquerading as an RAAF UH-1B

3. 1/55 New Ray CH-46

4.  1/48 Italeri OH-13 Possum and Testors(?) AH-1G

[SJWi]

Eddie, at least news that they were still alive last September is good to hear. I last heard of them 18 months ago ( or was it 30 months ago) when I think Warwick Kinrade posted photos of a demo game on this Forum. I guess all involved have other projects they are doing and from what I hear the cost and thus financial risk of starting a print run makes many authors wary about launching multiple projects in parallel.

[eddieazrael]

Sorry - another question on modelling Huey's as a follow up - would it be possible (anything is possible, I guess would it be simple) - to take the weapons from the Rubicon Huey and and them to the Hobbyboss model to make a properly armed Hobbyboss C gunship, leaving the Rubicon D as a slick?   I guess i'm asking of 1/48 vs 1/56 weapons are 'close enough' to not look out of scale.