I am looking for Korean War in 28

[commissarmoody]

Ok So these are some images I found trolling the web, to try and find some proper models for the uniforms. Its seems to be a nice mix mash of the 43 and 51 uniforms. Thought oppions? And which images do you think I could use as prototypes for prospective sculptor's?

[Arlequín]

Out of interest and not that it really matters in terms of uniforms and equipment, but the two black guys on the first set of photos, are Ethiopian, not American.

I would stay clear of 'modern' depictions and stick to original photos, it's not like there is a shortage and recreations can be wrong... several of the guys depicted are wearing black boots for a start, which didn't happen until the late 50s.


October 1950. Paratroopers (187th ARCT?) 'meet and greet' men of the 1st Cavalry Division.


Soldiers compare the old M9 Bazooka (right), with the new M20 'Super Bazooka'.



Troops on 'Old Baldy', March 1953. Note no flak-vests and helmet covers made from hessian sacking.


August 1950. Not sure who is retreating and who is advancing...


M20 Recoilless in operation, no date.

These were just off a search on 'Korean War' on Google, dig deeper and there should be even more. Some credits mix up Marines and Army and I find it hard to tell which is which, except in 1950, when the Marines were still wearing the WW2-era spats.


Inchon 1950, US Marines in action.


Seoul September 1950. Also Marines, although if the Lt. in the foreground hadn't been identified by name (Lt. Robert L. Strickland, USMC), I wouldn't have known.

As a rough rule of thumb, it looks to me like the main difference between Marines and Army, is that the Army appear to have no helmet covers until late in the war.

[commissarmoody]

My bad, I was in a hurry last night to get things posted and tossed the Ethiopians up.
Also for some reason half the real life pics I posted are not showing up. Strange.
And I was.only posting the "reactors" to get a feel for the 43 vs the 51 uniforms. In color. So the Leather buckles around the top of the boots lasted the whole war then?
I was seeing them and thought 1950-51.
I just want to have a nice mix for mid-late war and into the early 60s. And thanks for posting up about the hession sacks, i was starting to wounder why they were not using the reversible canvas helmet cover.  

[Arlequín]

No, the Ethiopians are a good clean shot of the full US rig... I mentioned it just out of interest. 

From what I can gather, the M1943 'double buckle' boots lasted the whole war, alongside the M1948 'jump boot' styled ones, although the later type was very popular, troops apparently taking 'wrong-sized' ones, rather than having to wear the old M1943 ones.

Likewise with uniforms, there seems to be an eclectic mix of WW2 HBT (or even wool items), worn alongside later patterns. It's almost as if you can date photos by the degrees of OD107 worn by the subjects...

Helmet covers don't seem to be an army 'thing' at this time. I know they borrowed netting from the British and Canadians in WW2, before coming out with their own by the end of the war. Almost all photos of the army in Korea show 'clean helmets', with occasionally mud smeared on, or the 'hessian' ones in the last year. The Marines had their reversible ones from 1942/3 onwards, but all I can gather is that the army didn't officially adopt one until the Vietnam era (the 'Mitchell' cover).

The guys in the photo and indeed Gregory Peck and company, in Pork Chop Hill, appear to be using pieces of sandbag hessian, rather neatly formed into helmet covers. These are most likely a field mod, rather than any sort of general issue.

[commissarmoody]

Seems like up until the very end, field units will present a very motley appearance then. Also even though I love the "Pork chop hill" look. I am going to save them for after I get a basic US infantry and PLA/DPRK infantry out.

[Arlequín]

The only thing 'uniform' about the US Army was its helmet, the one size only M1. Uniforms were from several different issue dates and came in a variety of sizes, 'too big' being perhaps the most common.

It's the same story with Winter clothing too by the look of it, with a mix of Great Coats or Parkas. 

I think you have the right idea though, generic early US before the more 'regularised' appearance of the last few months. 

[commissarmoody]

Ok then still mixed jump boots and ankle buckle boots, crazy mix of the LBEs and ammo bandoleers with troops putting kit pouches and canteens willy-nilly.
straight leg 43 and 51 issue trousers. Correct me if I am wrong but I am not seeing to many pic's with cargo pockets. Am I wrong in thinking that was still mostly an airborne thing is the US Army.

Then 43-51 tops, with a few guys wearing field jackets over em, with out the woolly under shirts.
Mixed head gear and we are off with the basic look anyways.

[Arlequín]

I'm not sure cargo pockets were even an Airborne 'thing' at this time, judging by the picture of the troopers shown in the first picture. They seem to be wearing 'ordinary infantry gear' with a unit specific stencil on the helmet, rather than any kind of 'Paratroop fatigues', as was the case in WW2. That's just one photo though and others might tell a different story.

The LBE was one type afaik and I'd imagine that anything other than the '44 OG7 colour to be a rarity. Pouches and canteens seem to be roughly in the same positions, with some guys packing extra canteens/pouches here and there. Unlike most everything else, the LBE didn't change between WW2 and 1956, when an entirely new pattern was brought in (although it was 'backwards compatible' to a point).

The way I see it, you have two basic styles to go for, other than 'Winter' anyway;

Summer - fatigue shirt, sometimes over t-shirt, sometimes not.
Spring/Autumn - fatigue or wool shirt under '43 or '51 field jacket.

I would pick one and go for it initially, with the correspondingly similar 'look' for the DPRK, rather than a vague mix of both. I can't speak for everyone, but for me, packs which mix styles are a real pain in the butt.

Looking at various photos, all the guys seem to be wearing the same thing at the same time, I don't recall seeing some guys in field jackets and others just in shirts in the same photo.

There are pros and cons either way. Field jackets can be used for Late WW2 in Europe, while the others would work for Late WW2 Pacific and Far East (I think?). I guess some sort of market research/poll is in order to determine the best option for you to go for.

[carlos marighela]

If you are going to sell them and hopefully get a return on the investment I'd suggest three factors to consider.

1) Uniqueness. When marketing figures never underestimate the appeal something shiny and new. You want something that really says Korea.

2)Crossover potential. ' I don't game Korea but I could use these for.....'

3) Toys, we all like toys and for the 20th C that means tanks.

One and two might appear inimical but they don't need to be. Nobody else does a Korean War range in summer kit, If you do guys in jackets and various boot styles, folk might be inclined to say yeah I'll just use WW2 figures as proxies. They also give them that MASH feel, which, let's be honest, is what most people associate with Korea.

Do them in shirtsleeves and plain pots and folk might pick them up for other purposes.

Do them in summer kit and you get the toy angle. Task Force Smith vs hordes of T-34s. Inchon with LVTs and you get to use all those M26s, Shermans and Chaffees before the whole thing becomes WW1 on frozen hilltops. If you are doing DPRK troops it makes sense to match them up against troops in summer kit.

[Arlequín]

Given the choice, the 'Summer' option works better for me too. 

[commissarmoody]

So summer in light kit it is for regular army and DPRK. Then winter in parkas to set them apart from the battle of the bulge ranges already out along with PLA/NKA winter. And then finish up with the on shiny uniformed fully kited later war movie style guys.

[Arlequín]

I would think your initial planned releases will keep you occupied for the foreseeable future. 

[commissarmoody]

I would think your initial planned releases will keep you occupied for the foreseeable future.  

Agreed, now I need to find a production company, and a sculptor who will be willing to take this project on, and then pay them to do it.  
As I said before this is a long term goal.

[commissarmoody]

Winter kit 1951


Slow down Joe


Good View of the back packs and kit.


Good profile and side view of troops and kit.


Good view of a Mortar crew in body armor.

 
Good view of web gear with add on's


Winter kit and 1919A6


Late war digging in. Also a good view of scrub in the background


Soul or Inchon

[commissarmoody]

NKA surrendering