Pet Peeve - Why are the Germans/Prussians always the enemy in VSF?

[former user]

so, is VSF in the end a fictionalized race about the "worthiest competitor" in imperialistic attitude?

[AzSteven]

In my Space 1889 universe which I am pretty much bringing over to IHMN, there are three major 'Power Blocs"  The Anglo-Prussian Bloc, the Franco-Russian Bloc and the Ottomans.  The Japanese are rapidly building up into a Power Bloc of their own as they continue to seek out bits and pieces of China not already committed to one of the other Blocs.  The Americans a nearly members of the Anglo-Prussian Bloc just from cultural/familial links, but are rapidly growing in power and may become a new Power Bloc of their own.

The Anglo-Prussian Bloc is focused on trade and empire, and on keeping the other Blocs in check.  It also works to keep the Ottomans out of central Africa or Asia as much as possible.

The Franco-Russian Bloc arose largely as a counter to the Anglo-Prussian Bloc.  It seeks also to increase colonial holdings in Africa and Asia, largely at the expense of the Anglo-Prussians.  It also seeks to hold back the influence of the Ottomans in the southern portions of Europe.   The French part of the alliance also seeks to retain a hold on Mexico as a counter to American expansion and as a possible alternative to African colonies.

The Ottomans seek largely to expand back into the glory of the ancient Caliphate; desiring to take all of Northern Africa and Southern Europe back into its fold, and to embrace India as well.

Since my group's scenarios tend to be American or Anglo-Prussian focused, its the French, the Russians and the Ottomans who are often the 'bad guys', with some occasional troubles with Japanese Imperialism, Chinese banditry and South American revolutionary movements.

[TheBlackCrane]

Interesting that no-one seems to mention Austrians/ Austria-Hungary... ok it's a thread which was taking about Germans/Prussians specifically, but does anyone else apart from me have forces which are meant to be from the Austro-Hungarian Empire at all? How do you (or anyone else) view them, if at all?

My own inclination is more to have the Russians as the 'jolly bad chaps' to the British as the jolly good ones, thinking in line of Northern India and Great Game scenarios as have already been mentioned.

[Dewbakuk]

By the late 19th Century the sun has pretty much set on the Austrian Empire, so I tend not to think of them at all to be honest. That said, my Neo-Venezian forces probably hold some major grudges so I might do some Austrians at some point....

[AzSteven]

In my earlier-described setting, the Austro-Hungarian Empire is a client of the Anglo-Prussian Bloc, which focuses nearly all of its efforts on holding off Ottoman influence and trying to retain the last vestiges of its territory in Italy from the Franco-Russian backed Italian Nationalists.

[TheBlackCrane]

By the late 19th Century the sun has pretty much set on the Austrian Empire, so I tend not to think of them at all to be honest.

Fair enough from a historical perspective, but Austria-Hungary remained a 'power' (theoretically at least) even if a waning second or even third rate compared to other Imperial European nations. More interestingly though is the scope for IHMN I think - plenty of opportunities for companies from all sorts of troop types, and loads of possible scenarios as well as opponents - nationalist rebels, anarchists, Hungarian separatists, Turkish agents, Serbia, Italy, Russia and so forth. The usefulness of VSF in general being it is fictional, I reckon Austria-Hungary has a lot to offer 

As it is, I need to base my Austrian company for IHMN and I'll put them up on a new thread, but just thought I'd throw them into the mix of possibilities.

In my earlier-described setting, the Austro-Hungarian Empire is a client of the Anglo-Prussian Bloc, which focuses nearly all of its efforts on holding off Ottoman influence and trying to retain the last vestiges of its territory in Italy from the Franco-Russian backed Italian Nationalists.

Now there's an idea; I wonder how an Austro-Turkish war would have turned out in the early 1900s - obviously including Balkan nations, and conveniently assuming Russia, Italy etc didn't get involved - be interesting to think how the Turkish & Austrian militaries might have matched up.

[Franz_Josef]

And the Austro-Hungarians give some scope for VSF innovation and inventions.  Nikolai Tesla was born in Croatia.  The Skoda armaments factory in Bohemia provided the Austro-Hungarian army with the 320 mm giant "mortars" (Morsers, really more of a howitzer) used by the German Army in 1914 to reduce the Liege fortresses.  Dr. Sigmund Freud in Vienna is experimenting with psycotherapy (and experimented with psycotropic drugs too, but perhaps that is another tale).  And for a touch of Gothic horror, there are probably vampires and werewolves in the backwoods of the Hungarian territories, amidst deserted and ruined castles (and gypsies!).  The Romfels armored car design (a few were constructed just prior to WW I) is elegant and almost Art Deco.         

[former user]

let's be honest, Austro-Hungaria has been replaced by Ruritania in popular culture

[Craig]

In Heroes, Villains & Fiends a certain Prince of Wallachia appears as a 'diplomat' for the Austro-Hungarians 
And he can face off against the Ottoman Imperial Counter-Intelligence Service and the Okhrana.

[HerbyF]

Don't forget a certain member of the Austro-Hungarian royal family sent the lead the intervention in Mexico.

[Conquistador]

Interesting that no-one seems to mention Austrians/ Austria-Hungary... ok it's a thread which was taking about Germans/Prussians specifically, but does anyone else apart from me have forces which are meant to be from the Austro-Hungarian Empire at all? How do you (or anyone else) view them, if at all?

<snip>

Closest I have come to that is to start research WW1 Austro-Hungarians (The Empire's Swan Song.)

[Franz_Josef]

  Ruritania is a bit more of a backwater than the old Austro-Hungarian Empire.  Fin-de-siecle Vienna (with a population that went from under a half million in 1850 to over 2 million by 1910) is the capital of a "nation" that in the 1890s (and right up to the beginning of WW 1) is still among Europe's cultural leaders and would help stamp the nature of 20th century culture  Think of Klimt, Mahler, Freud, Wittgenstein, Theodor Herzl.  Kafka lives in Prague, but that is still part of the Empire and he writes in German not Czech.  The below just scratches the surface.
   At the same time Viennese culture is a thriving, muti-ethnic melting pot, the German occult revival (Theosophy, Rosicrucianism, even a revival of astrology) is also growing here as well as in Germany itself (individuals active in the occult realm are Friedrich Eckstein, Franz Hartmann' Guido von List, and Rudolf Steiner) (Their "volkisch" occult beliefs will later influence the Nazis.)
   In the field of exploration and discovery (besides psychotherapy), there is an 1872-74 Austro-Hungarian North Pole Expedition (Julius von Payer and Karl Weyprecht are the leaders of a crew that comes from all over the Empire, many from Istria and Dalmatia).  Financed by two counts, Johann Nepomuk Wilczek and Odon Zichy.  The expedition discovers and names the Franz Josef Archipelago, and is considered a pioneer in polar exploration.
    A Hungarian expedition to Tibet and China in 1878 were the first western visitors to certain ancient Buddhist sites (e.g. oasis town of Dunhaung on border of the Gobi).  The team consisted of Count Bela Széchenyi, Gustav Kreitner and the geographer/geologist Lajos Loczy (best known for his detailed research of Lake Balaton).  Loczy mentioned  a "hidden library," one of the "Treasures of Mogao," to a friend, Aurel Stein  (a Hungarian-born British subject who was later knighted for his Central Asia exploration and archeological collection.)
   In Africa, Hungarian Count Sámuel Teleki (born in Transylvania!) discovered and named Lake Rudolf (now also called Lake Turkana) and Lake Stefanie (now Chew Bahir), in northern Kenya and southern Ethiopia.  He set out from Pangani (now in Tanzania) in February 1887 with an Austrian naval officer, Ludwig von Höhnel, and they traversed all of what is now Kenya to the southern end of Ethiopia. They climbed Kilimanjaro and Mount Kenya in March 1887 and then followed the interior river system to Lakes Rudolf and Stefanie, which they reached in March 1888. During the return to the East African coast, which they reached at Mombasa in October 1888, Teleki discovered an active volcano (in southern Kenya) subsequently named for him.
  "The concept of a vertical aircraft or helicopter began to challenge the imagination of Austro-Hungarian scientists toward the end of the 19th century. Noteworthy are the investigations of Josef Popper-Lynkeus, Anton Jarolimek, Professor Georg Wellner, and Wilhelm Kress. In 1894, Wellner experimented with a rotating-wing model that achieved a lift coefficient of 15kg per horsepower. Kress built a small 33kg model with counter-rotating propellers powered by an electric motor. In 1895 his associate. Dr. Waechter, successfully demonstrated the model indoors and out to the Technical Military Committee. Subsequently, Kress proposed a man-carrying helicopter weighing 325kg driven by a 20hp engine." http://www.aviastar.org/helicopters_eng/oeffag.php Peter Grosz "Austro-Hungarian Army Aircraft of World War I", 2002
    Anyos Jedlik (1800-1895), a Hungarian priest and engineer and professor at the University of Budapest, invented a prototype dynamo prior to 1856 (although Siemens is usually given credit, because Jedlik didn't mention it in writing prior to 1861 and his invention didn't come to public notice).  Jedlik experimented with electro-magnetic rotating devices.         

[TheBlackCrane]

See! Loads of potential!

Great set of info there 

[Conquistador]

Austro-Hungarians for VSF to oppose my Spanish?  Aaargh, that is a great and terrible idea that is now planted in my brain!

Just when I was sure I would be reducing my my miniatures in volume!

Seriously, that is a thought I will have to stew over and consider...

Have I ever told you guys how bad an influence you guys are?  

Fortunately I don't know what figures might be appropriate.

OMG, The Meridian Streampunk KS figures I pledged for...  What masked heads would work for them??

Gracias,

Glenn


Edit:  Insert Evil for bad in the sentence above...

[former user]

I think France and Austro-Hungaria were regarded (and this has  carried to a recent view) as some kind of second rate in matters of imperialistic power.
This however does not diminish cultural achievments nor was it intended as a disqualifying statement from my side.

I indeed believe that Ruritania at the time the books were written was a metaphor to symbolize exactly that thing: an operatic state that was too busy with itself.
And that is the reason Ruritania is shown as a backwater state with imperial ambitions but nothing to back them up. And in a certain way that was exactly what happened when WW1 came....