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Author Topic: 15mm armoured train  (Read 60679 times)

Offline Byblos

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Re: 15mm armoured train
« Reply #105 on: August 28, 2020, 07:35:30 AM »
Wow ! Superb  :-*

Offline Golgotha

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Re: 15mm armoured train
« Reply #106 on: September 06, 2020, 03:37:14 PM »
This is a fantastic build and very inspirational - love in particular seeing pictures of the build in its stages, certainly helped me to visualise what an armoured train might really look like. Will certainly be stealing some of your ideas.

Please do post more...

Offline sukhe_bator

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Re: 15mm armoured train
« Reply #107 on: September 07, 2020, 07:36:02 AM »
Thanks Golgotha, I will certainly do so as I work through my 15mm RCW collections in the next few weeks in an attempt to finish off projects while on furlough.
Warriors dreams, summer grasses, all that remains

Offline AKULA

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Re: 15mm armoured train
« Reply #108 on: September 07, 2020, 07:44:56 AM »
Excellent progress, enjoyed rereading the thread

 :)

Offline sukhe_bator

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Re: 15mm armoured train
« Reply #109 on: September 07, 2020, 02:57:02 PM »
Four mighty armoured behemoths emerge from opposing rail yards...
Bolshevik armoured trains 'Comrade Blyukher' and 'In Honour of L Trotsky' and White Russian trains 'Avenger' and 'Knight'...

Offline sukhe_bator

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Re: 15mm armoured train
« Reply #110 on: September 07, 2020, 03:00:33 PM »
The completed freelance version of White Russian train 'Vityaz' (Knight) in echelon formation, naval gun car to the fore, armoured loco with command wagon and blindirov crewed by a rifle company. The rifles can be swapped out for two field guns when needed.

Offline sukhe_bator

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Re: 15mm armoured train
« Reply #111 on: September 07, 2020, 03:03:45 PM »
'Vityaz' acquires a personality as the crew are added. The completed naval crew with a pair of 1:96 scale Shapeways 3pdr QF Hotchkiss and the rifle company complement for the blindirov.

Offline sukhe_bator

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Re: 15mm armoured train
« Reply #112 on: September 07, 2020, 03:06:53 PM »
Meanwhile 'Avenger' nears completion with freelance scratchbuilt gun car based loosely on Russo/Chinese designs and a Peter Pig gun car with scratchbuilt MG and OP turrets.

Offline Byblos

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Re: 15mm armoured train
« Reply #113 on: September 07, 2020, 04:05:11 PM »
Ooooooooooooooooooh  :-*

Offline Golgotha

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Re: 15mm armoured train
« Reply #114 on: September 07, 2020, 05:39:40 PM »
Gosh they look impressive when placed together like that - fantastic work.

Online dampfpanzerwagon

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Re: 15mm armoured train
« Reply #115 on: September 07, 2020, 05:41:53 PM »
 I agree - they look very impressive.

Tony

Offline sukhe_bator

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Re: 15mm armoured train
« Reply #116 on: September 07, 2020, 06:11:07 PM »
Of the remaining 4 unarmoured locos in the works only 4-6-0 'A' class 'Tashkent' is complete. I have 2 'Ov' class 0-8-0 and a 2-6-0 'Ya' class Putilov on the workbench. Only 1 Ov has running gear which I sculpted in green stuff from scratch as a challenge. Sculpting the running gear in green stuff is satisfying but hard work. I am not a masochist but I prefer the freedom of sculpting to glue/plasticard construction etc. as I am no 'railway modeller'. I have no precision tools or dedicated work space. I'm sure if one were to see me at work they'd probably wince as my builds are more theatrical than precise models. 'Tashkent' has Walschaerts valve gear but even the somewhat simpler Joy valve gear requires a certain of degree focus I have yet to reach. I can churn out an armoured train in half the time it takes to create an unarmoured one.

Offline sukhe_bator

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Some thoughts on wargaming with armoured trains WW1/RCW
« Reply #117 on: September 09, 2020, 06:47:07 PM »
I've been taking tentative steps to look at how I might use armoured trains on the wargames table. The main issue to my mind is coping with the far greater average length of the train against the need for a mechanism to plausibly deploy the train on the table.

Movement and Firing

My preferred ruleset is 'Triumph of the Will' by TwoFatLardies. However, they restrict firing to stationary trains, but in the WWII rules 'I Aint Been Shot Mum' firing while on the move is permitted. The reason cited in IABSM seems entirely sensible. Unlike other more primitive AFVs, railways provided a far smoother motion enabling easier targeting. Acceleration/Deceleration incurs a penalty on permissible actions as does emergency braking.

In order for spotting to occur weapons should be on-table so off-table barrages are not permitted. Spotting is automatic up to 12” in flat terrain.

The movement rate for trains in TOTW is up to 5DAV per turn with 2DAV acceleration/deceleration. Given the length of trains (a carriage is on average 4", a loco plus tender 6") thus a standard echelon of flat wagon, artillery car, loco & tender, artillery car, flat wagon is around 20" in length.  This means that only a high roll would enable the entire train to emerge onto the table in one turn. However, the limited deceleration might mean the train takes several turns to come to a halt and be able to fire by which time it is too close to enemy lines. This seems contrary to the tactical usage of trains.

A phased movement system seems the way forward. By declaring starting speed from the choice of STATIONARY, AHEAD SLOW (up to half movement), AHEAD FULL (half to full movement) subsequent alterations have to cycle up or down through the selection. As TOTW quotes a full speed of 25” I have opted for Full speed at 13”-24” and Half speed at 1”-12”. Markers can be used to indicate ‘Half‘ or ‘Full’ speed and whether the train is ‘Accelerating’ or ‘Decelerating’. No firing is permitted if the train elects to ‘Emergency Brake’ and a train must remain stationary for a full turn while the brakes are manually reset on each attached part of the train.

Rolling stock variation

Since I have 7 types of loco ranging from standard to fully armoured versions it seems churlish not to reflect this somehow in both performance and damage.

Others have suggested limitations on haulage based on motive power. However, motive power is less of an issue since train length on the table will place practical limitations on the number of carriages etc. way before this becomes an issue. Exposed running gear etc. on the loco will however be more prone to damage from small arms and shell-fire and should be reflected in increased chances in damage rolls.

Variation can also be employed on the different types of wagons and armament and used to create a points system. Based on the following examples a ceiling of 25-30pts per train is recommended. This can always be adjusted for different scenarios.

A proposed points system

1pt   Flat wagon
2pts   Open wagon
3pts   Box van or carriage
4pts   Loco (plus tender)
+1pt per vehicle   improvised defences (sand bags, baulks of timber etc.)
+2pts per vehicle   ‘blindirov’ part-armour concrete or plate metal reinforcements
+3pts per vehicle   plate armoured throughout
+1pt per vehicle   HMGs
+2pts per vehicle   Artillery and HMGs

Thus a standard fully armoured train echelon will cost between 25 & 29*pts;
1pt for a flat wagon (x2 sacrificial wagons fore and aft)*
8pts (3pts + 3pts + 2pts) for each artillery car (x2)
7pts (4pts + 3pts) armoured loco and tender

*Further MGs stationed on the flat wagons fore and aft in improvised defences will cost an additional 4pts.

A more ad-hoc train arrangement will cost somewhat less @ 21 to 23pts;
6pts for 2 flat wagons with MGs in improvised defences (1+1+1) x2 fore and aft
5pts (2pts + 2pts + 1pt) open blindirov with MGs only
4pts unarmoured loco and tender (+2pts if partially armoured)
6pts (2pts + 2pts + 2pts) open blindirov with field guns and MGs

You get the general idea…

Offline trev

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Re: 15mm armoured train
« Reply #118 on: September 13, 2020, 12:53:39 PM »
Very nice work Sukhe.  I can't really comment on your TotW rules idea I'm afraid.  Maybe you could post them in the BoB section for more thoughts.

Offline sukhe_bator

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Re: 15mm armoured train
« Reply #119 on: September 14, 2020, 08:03:09 AM »
Thanks Trev - will do that

 

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