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Author Topic: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread  (Read 1683385 times)

Offline Condottiere

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Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #9615 on: April 18, 2019, 04:08:52 AM »
Yeah, word of warning before discontinuation would be nice. I was looking for the old wolfriders the other day and couldn't find them. Probably been gone for years though. I guess I'll just have to buy some fenrisian wolves for my old metal wolfriders (actually I bought some chaos wolves instead, they might be good for Goblin mounts if I don't chaosify them too much)
I once asked Forge World why they removed Rhinoxen without notice and was told they didn't want to deal with panic buying... lol

Are the wolf riders in the 2018 General's Handbook? How about mercenary Orcs with crossbows? 

Offline Condottiere

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Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #9616 on: April 18, 2019, 04:12:49 AM »
With the shipping it’s a bargain
Certified/registered mail, like for legal documents and jewelry, is around the $10 range, so might explain the price? lol

Offline beefcake

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Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #9617 on: April 18, 2019, 04:47:39 AM »
Are the wolf riders in the 2018 General's Handbook? How about mercenary Orcs with crossbows?
No idea, last book I bought involving armies was many many years ago. I don't even know what the general's Handbook is  lol


Offline Vladimir Raukov

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Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #9618 on: April 18, 2019, 08:23:19 AM »
No idea, last book I bought involving armies was many many years ago. I don't even know what the general's Handbook is  lol

General's handbook has the most updated rules/points for each race. Convenient, but little to no lore. New one's due out in a couple of months.

Offline Cubs

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Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #9619 on: April 18, 2019, 08:59:33 AM »
It always bugged me, the idea of Orcs with missile weapons. Downright un-Orcy. I don't know what they're doing these days (as regards rules and profiles), but back when I still played Warhammer, they had a lower BS than WS, were T4 and cost a little more than a human. Giving them bows, even crossbows, just seemed a waste.

If only Goblins were allowed anything other than puny shortbows, they'd have had a decent missile option. But I guess that's the point of the Orcs and Goblins, you're encouraged to charge forward and get stuck in before animosity starts making everything go crazy.
'Sir John ejaculated explosively, sitting up in his chair.' ... 'The Black Gang'.

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Offline Chico

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Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #9620 on: April 18, 2019, 11:53:37 AM »
It always bugged me, the idea of Orcs with missile weapons. Downright un-Orcy. I don't know what they're doing these days (as regards rules and profiles), but back when I still played Warhammer, they had a lower BS than WS, were T4 and cost a little more than a human. Giving them bows, even crossbows, just seemed a waste.


It's funny how Warhammer has shaped our perceived thoughts around general Fantasy no matter how long ago we played it, I'm the same with Dwarves that they shouldn't have Wizards and Bows (Crossbows are ok mind).

Offline Hobgoblin

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Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #9621 on: April 18, 2019, 11:56:23 AM »
It always bugged me, the idea of Orcs with missile weapons. Downright un-Orcy. I don't know what they're doing these days (as regards rules and profiles), but back when I still played Warhammer, they had a lower BS than WS, were T4 and cost a little more than a human. Giving them bows, even crossbows, just seemed a waste.

Which edition was that? I'm pretty sure Orcs always had WS and BS of 3 all the way through the first three editions. Hobgoblins had BS 2 (for reasons that were never explained; likewise Slann). T4 is right enough, though, and they were just a quarter-point more than a human - the higher toughness being offset by lower initiative.

For my money, the best Orcs Citadel/GW ever did was the first slottabased range by the Perry (some of which were based on the older armoured orcs, which I know you know and love!). One thing I really liked about that range is that they were quite Tolkienesque - bandy legs, long arms and some of the melee-equipped ones also toting bows (e.g. Axe Killer and Blane):



Of course, the contemporary LotR range had lots of bow-armed orcs too; Tolkien seems to indicate that even the big fighting orcs in heavy armour carried bows too (the Uruk-hai in Isengard, the Uruk that gets shot by the tracker in Mordor). I've long wondered whether some of that C15 range were considered as candidates for the Red Eye or White Hand ranges (the likes of Shock Troop, Blade Bane, Sniper and Archer fit right in with those). And most of the biggest kills Orcs get in Middle Earth are achieved with arrows (e.g. Isildur, Balin and Boromir).

And even when Kev Adams took over from the Perrys, there were loads of Orc archers, including the second Harboth's set, and crossbowmen too. I used to like fielding lots of Orc archers in Warhammer, because they held up pretty well in exchanges of fire with other missile troops, thanks to their high T. When my Orc archers were lined up against a friend's high-elf archers at 12", the Orcs would tend to achieve slightly more casualties, thanks to the quirks of the Warhammer system (and much to my glee!)

So, I'd argue that bows used to be the quintessential Orc weapon in Warhammer!  :P

Not sure why the hobgoblins had BS 2. It might have been because there were only three hobgoblin archer models, or because of the Frenzy rule. Or it might just have been to keep their cost down relative to humans (hobgoblins were a bargain, though, thanks to Frenzy).


Offline Cubs

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Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #9622 on: April 18, 2019, 12:47:16 PM »
Which edition was that?

Might have been 2 or 3.

I quite like those Orcs and I think they're my favourite slotta-based ones - I think they're the first generation slottas. But my all time faves will always be the pre-slotta C-series guys.

Offline Belligerentparrot

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Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #9623 on: April 18, 2019, 12:50:41 PM »
It's funny how Warhammer has shaped our perceived thoughts around general Fantasy no matter how long ago we played it

Haha, yeah, despite devouring as many fantasy novels as I could find when a teenager, it is 3rd ed. Warhammer and the minis available at the time that still define my assumptions about these things. Dwarves do NOT cast spells  :) Wood elves are ninjas. And so on.

Always thought Orcs would go in for shooting though (all forms of killing would appeal to them), and could easily imagine them with guns actually. But that might be the early 90s Ork fluff (the louder the explosion the better) seeping into my fantasy tropes.

Offline Condottiere

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Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #9624 on: April 18, 2019, 01:13:28 PM »
It's funny how Warhammer has shaped our perceived thoughts around general Fantasy no matter how long ago we played it, I'm the same with Dwarves that they shouldn't have Wizards and Bows (Crossbows are ok mind).

How about polearms and pikes? Dwarf wizards are fine, as they have worse stats than humans and I only recall Norse Dwarf models with bows. 

Perceived thoughts on Fantasy is dependent on which version of Warhammer shaped it: 1st-3rd, influenced by Tolkein, D&D and etc., diversity in opinions and list composition is normal, in contrast with increasing concepts of standardization in 4th and 5th, culminating in the buzzkill of 6th edition. Probably influenced by First Knight,  lol Bretonnians had the fun sucked out of 'em in 5th, though mercenaries were allowed - you could even include cannons, but lost the Lady's Favor - and gone in 6th, to languish in obscurity til cancellation. :-[ Saw a Youtube video lamenting the decline of Khorne into mindless savages, yet no one in the comments mentioned the forgotten technological aspects and thought missile weapons were dishonorable choices. lol 

Somewhat bemused over how some are so threatened enough by list options, based on their perceived notions of what something looks or behaves i fanatsy/sci-fi. Min/maxing tourney players and organizers are the worst and becasue of them, the Empire list lost Halflings, Dwarfs and Ogres and Dogs of War were gone by the end of 6th Edition. >:( Those tourney twats are why bases being unimportant for measuring in AoS 1.0/1.5 became standardized in Ao$ 2.0.   
« Last Edit: April 18, 2019, 01:31:18 PM by Condottiere »

Offline Condottiere

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Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #9625 on: April 18, 2019, 01:24:38 PM »
It always bugged me, the idea of Orcs with missile weapons. Downright un-Orcy. I don't know what they're doing these days (as regards rules and profiles), but back when I still played Warhammer, they had a lower BS than WS, were T4 and cost a little more than a human. Giving them bows, even crossbows, just seemed a waste.

If only Goblins were allowed anything other than puny shortbows, they'd have had a decent missile option. But I guess that's the point of the Orcs and Goblins, you're encouraged to charge forward and get stuck in before animosity starts making everything go crazy.
While a waste to some for others it's option for fun and expression in gaming, especially Ruglud's Armored Orcs: I acquired 60 of the late 90s ones, as I like the look and the animosity rules were fun, though scrapped in 6th edition. :-[ Standard Orcs have been sidelined in Ao$, in favor of Black Orcs and pricey Super Black Orcs.   

Offline Condottiere

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Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #9626 on: April 18, 2019, 01:36:07 PM »
Haha, yeah, despite devouring as many fantasy novels as I could find when a teenager, it is 3rd ed. Warhammer and the minis available at the time that still define my assumptions about these things. Dwarves do NOT cast spells  :) Wood elves are ninjas. And so on.

Always thought Orcs would go in for shooting though (all forms of killing would appeal to them), and could easily imagine them with guns actually. But that might be the early 90s Ork fluff (the louder the explosion the better) seeping into my fantasy tropes.
I think you've mixed up your editions...

Third Edition Dwarfs have wizards and they cast spells.

Wood Elves as ninja skirmishers weren't til 6th edition IIRC, along with the revised Beastmen, as in 4th an 5th, they weren't that different than High Elves, albeit with Wardancers.

Speaking of ninjas, Citadel had an extensive range, but they did nothing with 'em - even in 3rd they were limited. I would've liked to have a unit as generic or Regiment of Renown Dogs of War unit. On the Grand Alliance "safe zone", I asked about fielding 30 ninjas as Wardancers someone asked me: What's a Wardancer?  :o
« Last Edit: April 18, 2019, 03:58:53 PM by Condottiere »

Offline JamesValentine

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Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #9627 on: April 18, 2019, 04:06:23 PM »
This garbage is horrific

Offline Condottiere

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Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #9628 on: April 18, 2019, 04:14:32 PM »
This garbage is horrific

Iceman's the Ice Cream Man... :o

Who's that figure supposed to represent? The mail looks worse than what I've seen on 80s MM60 sculpts...

Offline Belligerentparrot

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Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #9629 on: April 18, 2019, 04:17:12 PM »
I think you've mixed up your editions...

Ha, maybe, would have been early 1990s, Warhammer came in a box with high elves and goblins. Dwarves could not cast spells, and wardancers were by far the most effective wood elf unit (though treemen had their moments too).

 

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