The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread

[mcfonz]

Not sure what you meant to say there; the second point seems to counter the first one? Condottiere said many on Yaktribe were not particularly positive about Necromunda (the latest version), having some detailed threads with all inconsistencies between books and the likes. Then you said this was irrelevant (implying Yaktribe focuses on the '95 edition?), followed by saying the website features both?

My point was, dumping a link to the front page of yaktribe means nothing. I'm not going to trawl a forum to find threads if someone else is to lazy to link to the ones they feel say otherwise.

I haven't said anything was irrelevant - just that it wasn't clear what Condi was alluding to by just dropping the front page. I guessed that it might be that '95 is better than modern. Which, if you go back to what I was saying, wasn't my point. My point was the Rulebook and Gangs of the Underhive are vast improvements on the Gang War releases owing to have to flip backwards and forwards between them all and the boxed game rule book and the inconsistencies between them.

[mcfonz]

Spyrers were actually the 95 version of Brats: uphive nobles going on downhive killing sprees. As McFonz says, Nomads eventually got some models and rules for Necro, but nothing seemed very well thought-out and the minis are really odd. (Why does everyone have only one sleeve? Marauder Nomads are way more fun).

Yeah, similar fluff but depiction was incredibly different. Where they differed on fluff is that Brats where typically more flamboyant weren't they? Where as Spyrers are more spec ops teams of assassins who didn't want to be easily linked back to their sources. Almost like Batman not wanting people to know he is Bruce Wayne.

[Daeothar]

Also, Bratz were more on par with regular gangs in terms of numbers and equipment, albeit with newer, flashier weapons and cleaner, brighter clothes, while Spyrers were more of a one-(wo)man army. In fluff, they usually operated alone too, if I recall correctly.

And Spyrers going down into the underhive, all kitted out in a powered suit of choice, were doing so as a rite of passage to be allowed to take up an actual ruling position within their families. Bratz were just spoilt rich, well, brats, who went slumming out of boredom and for kicks.

Exactly like Lexandro D'Arquebus (the later Imperial Fists captain) did with his bike gang, swooping down the central vents of Necromunda Prime to drive-by shoot unsuspecting factory workers in the lower levels, just for fun...

[TheMightyFlip]

I'd rather see Bratz than Spyrers, just kind of irritating when you have older gangs/factions being left to gather dust, not to mention the new Guilder add-on's that have no miniatures, yet they shoe horned Genestealers and two Chaos cults in (Helots and Corpse Grinders).

[Condottiere]

Enter the House of Chains

House of Chains introduces Prospects into gangs for the first time. These are the up-and-comers of the House and represent the future of the gang. In House Goliath, they’re called Forge-born, and they are desperate to prove themselves to the Alphas of the clan so they can take their place as future champions and leaders. As you can see from their profile, they’re not there quite yet.

They’re cheaper than a regular ganger and have different abilities to Juves, which offers you a lot of customisation in how you build your gang.

Who was it said that these were "effectively juves"? I guess he doesn't know what he's talking about...

Something I mentioned before about specialist champions:

But what good are new rules without new models to go with them? Well, not only are the Goliath Forge-born getting some miniatures, but they come in a kit with Goliath Stimmers, who are new House-specific Champions.

The House of Chains goes into detail about the different origins of fighters in House Goliath, be they Vatborn (those created in a vat), Natborn (those born naturally) or Unborn (those from outside the House). If these fighters aren’t quite what you need, then there are rules to apply gene-smithing to them. Vatborn, Natborn and Unborn fighters can all take different Gene-smithed upgrades that increase both their characteristics and credit cost. Want your fighters to be even tougher than regular Goliaths? Give your Vatborn the Dermal Hardening upgrade and they will laugh off all but the strongest attacks.

Upgraded Goliaths are now not Primaris Marines...

Vatborns are your “baseline” Goliath fighters, but you can upgrade any number of them to Natborn or Unborn and then Gene-smith away to your heart’s content!

New hanger-on figures:



A return to N17:

Of course, we couldn’t just let Goliath have all of the fun! All six House gangs are going to get their own book and, just like the House of Chains, they will all feature extensive background, new fighters, alliances, Bounty Hunters, House-specific tactics and more. Each gang will also get new plastic kits along with their book. Exciting, eh? Let’s take a look at the (Ash) road map for what’s coming up.

Great to know that all your recent purchases have been invalidated and they're obviously going re-release these eventually, just like Ao$.

I forgot to mention new cards will be released, starting with Goliath, so I'm glad I missed out on the old ones!

[Belligerentparrot]

Who was it said that these were "effectively juves"? I guess he doesn't know what he's talking about...

Yeah I think that was me, when I put the first pic of these up. My bad 

Like the look of a couple of those hangers-on!

[Condottiere]

Yeah I think that was me, when I put the first pic of these up. My bad 

Like the look of a couple of those hangers-on!

Nah, it wasn't you...

 

I like all those Forge World models too, as with a little tweaking, they could be used in WFB. I'm not thrilled about the 6 new "army" books and how many pages could be devoted to one House? Gangs of the Underhive will be invalidated, but I'm not sure about The Book of Judgement and The Book of Peril. With power creep already an issue, now there will be more books to reference and the possibility of more inconsistencies - the 2019 errata fixed a few issues, but caused some more.  

[Belligerentparrot]

Just realised the hangers-on are Forgeworld. Will wait and see the price before I decide whether I like 'em.  That mancatcher guy is pretty cool though, kinda reminds me of the Logan's World ork slavers in the rt rulebook.

If I actually played the game I'd be pissed off at having a whole load more books to buy. I definitely find GW a lot less frustrating since shifting to homebrew/other rules. The minis are by far the best thing they put out, at least for my purposes.

[blacksoilbill]

Yes, mancatcher looks great. Pity he's FW.

[TheMightyFlip]

Just noticed that the gladiator is standing on an Ambots severed arm. 

[mcfonz]

Nah, it wasn't you...

Yeah, he means me, even though others did too, no one else 'called' him out on the stuff he keeps posting. 

So lets address that.

Who was it said that these were "effectively juves"? I guess he doesn't know what he's talking about...

I have no issue holding my hand up to that. Especially as the evidence you suggest proves that wrong, actually proves it right. So "effectively" in that use can also be expressed as 'almost', 'more or less', 'virtually', 'practically', 'in effect' etc. So, as the intent suggests, I wasn't saying they were precisely Juves. That was clear from the equipment they were carrying. But the bulk, or lack there of, the bodies themselves suggested not yet fully fledged Goliaths. Now the evidence.


This statline differs from a Goliath Juve in a few ways. Juves are T3, I3+, Cl5+ and Wil10+.

So they are very similar in stats, as in they don't have the Goliath ganger BS, retain the faster movement of a Juve but have the T4 of the ganger. This might be something owing to the new rules about the birth of the characters themselves which is explained later. They have better Wil but are worse Cl and Initiative, though the same I as gangers.

So visually, which is what I was going on, and stats wise, they are very similar.

"In House Goliath, they’re called Forge-born, and they are desperate to prove themselves to the Alphas of the clan so they can take their place as future champions and leaders. As you can see from their profile, they’re not there quite yet."

"They’re cheaper than a regular ganger and have different abilities to Juves, which offers you a lot of customisation in how you build your gang."

So, they're not a ganger. The suggestion from the above is that they progress the same was as Juves in that they follow the same rules for advancing with XP - that comes from the "take their place as future champions and leaders", as Juves can do this.

Ergo, they are like Juves, and could be said to be 'almost'/'more or less'/'virtually'/'practically'/'in effect' Juves. Their position in a gang is similar. Their description is similar - essentially they are 'like Juves but with different options'.

Not really seeing your point.

I'm not thrilled about the 6 new "army" books and how many pages could be devoted to one House? Gangs of the Underhive will be invalidated, but I'm not sure about The Book of Judgement and The Book of Peril. With power creep already an issue, now there will be more books to reference and the possibility of more inconsistencies - the 2019 errata fixed a few issues, but caused some more.

I believe there is a WHTV episode where this is going to be addressed. I like to hold back before I make knee jerk comments on things in case they turn out to be wrong. I'd be a bit narked if what you say is true, though when I compare to other hobbies out there, overall it isn't that expensive. The books are still cheaper than console games and you don't have to use the modern miniatures or even GW miniatures if you don't want to.

My Delaque gang is from Heresy Miniatures, my current Venator gang is lead by an old Black Scorpion oop sheriff converted, a mantic mini with a skitarii(sp) head, three Dark Age (CMON) miniatures, a converted WHFB Ogre with heavy bolter and some Die Hard sci fi miniaures. All of which have also been used in other games in the past (old Necro for the Delaques).

There are ways and means of doing games cheaper. Usually you can save on miniatures if you look to 2nd hand markets or other manufacturers. I have a regular Necromunda group and we love the game. It's grown from 3 of us to 8 and keeps growing. So £20 for a book to continue that fun? I don't need more gangs...

More books to reference, again, time will tell. At worst the rules from the underhive book will be repeated in the new house specific books. However, even if they do that, the underhive book has 160 pages. The house gangs are dealt with by page 60. It also includes the trade chart, weapons charts, hired guns, brutes and pets. Now, they might include the house specific ones but it would require repetition in all of the books of the other stuff if they were to completely invalidate the under-hive book.

Upgraded Goliaths are now not Primaris Marines...

I believe the fluff already has Goliaths having been recruited by (I believe) the Imperial Fists as it is one of their recruiting worlds. So actually although that comment is in jest, it's actually not far from the truth.

Finally, on a more positive note and a bit of conjecture. If they are using these House specific books to introduce more depth and background to the house gangs, I wonder if that will mean we see a return of some old things through them?

Some houses had named character hired guns in the past like Bella Donna who is yet to be seen in her original form. There is a similarly named character but it's not her.

I also wonder if the reason Cawdor are one of the two last gangs on the list to be released (I assume as they are not for this year) is because they could naturally provide the step over into the 'Outlander' gangs. It would make sense that the Redemptionists are part of that book, at least going on historical fluff references, they are of the same belief just a little more heretical/extreme and outlaws.

[Condottiere]

Just realised the hangers-on are Forgeworld. Will wait and see the price before I decide whether I like 'em.  That mancatcher guy is pretty cool though, kinda reminds me of the Logan's World ork slavers in the rt rulebook.

Single figures from GW main and Forgeworld are priced the same nowadays, with the only difference being something $30+ in plastic vs higher quality resin. Also FW has a silly habit of removing products with little to no notice, like everything human related for WFB...
     
I like the fat bloke on the left, as he looks like something from John Blanche's art.  

If I actually played the game I'd be pissed off at having a whole load more books to buy. I definitely find GW a lot less frustrating since shifting to homebrew/other rules. The minis are by far the best thing they put out, at least for my purposes.

It's become a juggling act trying to decide whether to buy the latest figure or the rules to use one and then there's the unavailability of overpriced terrain pieces, like the Zone Mortalis Tiles - maybe a US facility would've alleviated things? I've heard the claim that these newer books are optional, but based on my experience with Ao$, you'll be at a significant disadvantage showing up without the latest battletome or supplement, like Malign Sorcery. With Necromunda rulebook and supplement QC being as is and errata released at a snail's pace, sometimes requiring its own errata, discussions have resulted about rules as intended(RaI) and rules as written(RaW).     

[Condottiere]

Warhammer Community article about the newHigh Elf spearmen - the fluff reads like bad fanfiction!

As the Auralan Wardens fight as a phalanx, they have been designed in a variety of defensive poses, with leaf-shaped shields to the fore and long spears thrust forwards to face the enemy. Their shields each have a crescent-shaped nook, enabling the warriors to support the weight of their spear shafts and thrust their weapons forwards even when their shields are interlocked. The shields themselves are interchangeable and feature intricate woven lattice work on their unarmoured side, hinting at the incredible craftsmanship that is synonymous with everything the Lumineth create.

Why not say back or reverse side? Shields don't have unarmored sides, they're just planks of wood covered in parchment or leather. Incredible craftsmanship?!? More like the designer could be bothered to add some details!

With the exception of triangular tabards of scale mail, the lower halves of the Wardens remain unarmoured – these areas of the body are protected by the interlocking shields of the phalanx. Meanwhile, the upper halves feature a mix of male and female torsos, each clad in layers of scale and plate armour with elegant, curved pauldrons. Their armour is bedecked with sun and moon icons, symbolising the twin gods of Hysh, for their warriors are neither Tyrionic nor Teclian exclusively. The interchangeable heads of the Auralan Wardens are protected by full helms and crowned with exotic plumes.

TBF, while I appreciate the male and female parts, I can't tell the difference, especially with the helmets - thankfully I don't see boob plates. All these parts will mean the price will be $40-$50 for 10 figures, so not an economical way to build up a pike block for WFB - a massed battle game with skirmish level priced figures. 

Each of the Auralan Wardens carries a short sword strapped to their backs. Though not designed to be their primary weapons, these blades would be drawn for self-defence should an enemy get inside their reach – or to extricate their spears should an enemy become kebabed on the shaft!

The sword on the left doesn't look short to me and why strapped to the back? Sure it looks cool, but it's not an easy way to draw a sword of this length in an emergency: one hand has to grip the scabbard from the bottom, assuming the left, while the other unsheaths it. It would've made more sense to have the sword on the left or right hip. How does one extricate a stuck spear with a sword?
 
I wonder how these Corinthian helmets would look on Empire State Troops or Palanite Enforcers...

Anyone planning on converting these spearmen to look like these High Elf mercenaries from the '98 Dogs of War book?

[pixelgeek]

Apparently I now have to add 'Necromunda' to "politics' and 'religion' as topics I don't bring up in polite company.

[Blackwolf]

Apparently I now have to add 'Necromunda' to "politics' and 'religion' as topics I don't bring up in polite company.