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Author Topic: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread  (Read 1683256 times)

Offline FramFramson

  • Elder God
  • Posts: 10681
  • But maybe everything that dies, someday comes back
Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #90 on: September 20, 2013, 04:14:05 PM »
I think that GW's best function is, as mentioned, as an introduction to tabletop gaming. Many people even on these very boards started with oldhammer so many years ago. Or, if not, it was a flavour of Warhammer that at least made them aware of the existence of tabletop wargaming.  

GW has an organized presence in physical shops and branded shops of their own, making them much more accessible to anyone who doesn't pick up tabletop wargaming in a club. Plus by covering both sci-fi and conventional fantasy they have entry points for most people, regardless of interest (and at one point they even had historical too). Also, interest in historicals is something that tends to attract an older crowd (old enough to have actually done a few history classes and be interested in it anyway). Anyway, like Microsoft for PCs or Apple for phones, they become the default option due to their dominance and ubiquity - a standard.

Like any corporate behemoth, they have inertia that lets them get away with some poor practices that might cripple a smaller company. McVey/CMON is suffering much more for the quality failures of their KS shipments than GW is from Finecast. These are (unfortunately) minor in the scheme of things and won't hurt GW that much.

The biggest gripe about GW is price - and that IS a relevant gripe. Concerns about piracy, proxy figures, and reselling are concerns that arise because the normal price is seen by some consumers as unfair or unaffordable. People argue about rule systems or figure preferences as a personal thing, but the pocketbook matters. Especially given GW's status as a "gateway drug" for tabletop gaming.

I try to deal with facts as much as I can there. The reality as has been posted several times is that GW IS raising prices and has been doing so for some years now, testing just what the market will bear. As a result, profits have risen and the company is doing very well at the moment. Sale of 40k licenses for video gaming is also a revenue stream no other tabletop gaming companies really have. Collapse is not imminent. But the sales figures also show declining numbers of sales, both in terms of overall volume of sales and in number of buyers. This leads to two things:

1) The company has at least partially failed to recognize that it's their accessibility that is one of the keys to their success. If you're the entry point for an entire industry, it's TERRIBLE to also be that industry's most expensive vendor. Or they assume that just being present is physically enough. Kind of like the fellow who goes on a date and assumes the girl will like him just because he's the one who showed up.

2) Sales figures are being propped up by an ever-shrinking customer base who are individually spending more. It is not unreasonable to guess that these are the die-hards or longtime players with an investment in the game. Older players like that are more likely to have adult incomes that can support the GW hobby at current pricing. IF that is the case (and I wish we had figures for this), then GW's customer base is both shrinking AND aging, which is terrible. That would mean that the company is mortgaging it's future for the sake of current profits (a common phenomenon these days). Note that the PLAYER base is different from the CUSTOMER base as many people play GW using old used figs, substitutes, or the like, which masks the problem a bit.

The real question is whether they continue to raise prices in excess of inflation or industry averages or whether they level off. If they level it off at current prices, they might survive just fine. If they keep raising it, well... everyone has their breaking point. The time might come when the average player who still buys regularly finds themselves staring down a single $50 Space Marine librarian and decides it's time to drop this frighteningly expensive hobby. If the customer base is small enough, the bottom could actually drop out with "no warning", after an increase that "breaks the camel's back". Not that every GW player will resign en masse, but you'd start to see BIG dropoffs instead of the small gradual ones of the past decade.

If that happens, lowering prices back to the most recent before the increase won't get those lost players back in. It's always harder to recover lost customers or get new ones than to keep existing ones after all. What that might mean for GW or the hobby in general, I don't know, but I doubt it'll be much good to anyone.  

==================

A word on the online factor: Loads of kids today are getting into things online first. So GW's shop presence is not as crucial a factor in getting kids into minis gaming these days (though it certainly still matters). Something like Pulp Alley - easy to learn easy to learn and only requiring a few figures of your own choosing - is just as attractive as an entry point for kids. The only real drawback is the smaller community, which makes it more difficult to find a game. A lot of times local game groups have a particular game that might not be popular on a large scale, but are played heavily locally, sometimes because one or two people got the local group into it. That props up a lot of the smaller game companies.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2013, 04:20:28 PM by FramFramson »


I joined my gun with pirate swords, and sailed the seas of cyberspace.

Offline grant

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 4167
Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #91 on: September 20, 2013, 04:37:14 PM »
Same goes for music... Just look at Beiber and One Direction  lol

cheers

James

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Canada is awfully sorry for Bieber. And Celine Dion before that. We are currently working on genetic testing to identify anomalies in singing talent, and to reduce all such people to the level of Nickelback. A general dislike is tolerable - seething hatred is not! Thank you.  :D

GW is such an odd company.

The thing that has piqued my interest lately are the for-sale pdf hobby articles. They sell for like $3 or something, which is not much, except when one realizes that was the content from the website, and White Dwarf, that has now been put into a pdf or whatever, and sold. So what used to be value-added content and free, is now pay-for content.

A good commercial model, to nickel-and-dime your customers, but sad, too, isn't it?
It’s a beautiful thing, the destruction of words - Orwell, 1984

Offline Cubs

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 4914
  • "I simply cannot survive without beauty ..."
Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #92 on: September 20, 2013, 05:39:22 PM »
Wow. That got rustic pretty quickly.

Imagine if we were talking about anything that mattered.
'Sir John ejaculated explosively, sitting up in his chair.' ... 'The Black Gang'.

Paul Cubbin Miniature Painter

Offline FramFramson

  • Elder God
  • Posts: 10681
  • But maybe everything that dies, someday comes back
Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #93 on: September 20, 2013, 05:52:57 PM »
Imagine if we were talking about anything that mattered.

Bah, then we'd never have agreement.

Offline Cubs

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 4914
  • "I simply cannot survive without beauty ..."
Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #94 on: September 20, 2013, 06:16:13 PM »
Bah, then we'd never have agreement.

Yes we would.


Offline weismonsters

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 374
Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #95 on: September 20, 2013, 07:06:10 PM »
Dolmot, very well said. I take my hat off to you.

I also dislike the bashing ring mentality.

« Last Edit: September 20, 2013, 07:08:48 PM by weismonsters »

Offline Cubs

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 4914
  • "I simply cannot survive without beauty ..."
Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #96 on: September 21, 2013, 08:04:04 AM »
Can I just ask that people refrain from brutal ring bashing on this forum. It is an inappropriate venue for such antics and can cause permanent damage.

Offline beefcake

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 7413
Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #97 on: September 21, 2013, 08:07:56 AM »
Um....  lol


Offline grant

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 4167
Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #98 on: September 24, 2013, 02:23:38 AM »
Squats?


Offline stone-cold-lead

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1709
Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #99 on: September 24, 2013, 08:01:09 AM »
Squats?



Yeah, I think something's going round.  ;)

Offline FramFramson

  • Elder God
  • Posts: 10681
  • But maybe everything that dies, someday comes back
Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #100 on: September 24, 2013, 04:25:14 PM »
Gesundheit!

Offline beefcake

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 7413
Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #101 on: September 28, 2013, 12:29:48 AM »
New dark elves are up for preorder. I actually am fairly impressed, if only they were metal ;)
The medusa is quite a nice piece.
Luckily for me I got rid of all my old dark elf miniatures a couple of weeks ago with the current army book back then. I think the price I got would be a bit less as i sold the army book in mint condition too.

Offline grant

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 4167
Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #102 on: September 28, 2013, 02:01:49 AM »
10 plastic infantry are now $40 in Canada. HOLY #*$&ing @#&*!

No, these are just obscenely overpriced. Seriously - $40? WOW. NO! NO! NO!


Offline beefcake

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 7413
Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #103 on: September 28, 2013, 03:37:59 AM »
 lol I didn't say impressed with the price. Just the minis look quite cool.

Offline Gibby

  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • Posts: 2352
Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #104 on: September 28, 2013, 08:40:38 AM »
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440004a&prodId=prod2250008a

We have now reached £35 for ten plastic figures lol. Unbelievable. How can they maintain this business model?

To put it in perspective, twenty plastic Witch Elves will cost you £70. For £10 LESS than that, you can buy 120 WotR Infantry, a pack of metal WotR Commanders and a crewed WotR artillery piece in Perry's £60 army deal!

 

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